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Best Fishing Knot for Braided Line [Braid to Leader Contest]
By: Luke Simonds on January 10, 2015
Found In:
Braid to Leader • Fishing Knots • Fishing Tips • Knot Contest
Of all the many variables involved with landing the biggest fish of the day, the fishing knots we tie are the only ones we have absolutely 100% control over, so it’s on us to make time to learn the best fishing knot for all of the needed connections.
To help the Salt Strong community always feel confident in knots while pursuing the biggest, baddest, and saltiest fish in the sea, we decided to start this head-to-head tournament style contest where the most popular knots are put against each other so that we can determine which knot is truly the best-of-the-best for those of us who use braided line fishing line.
We specified this analysis towards braided line because it is the best option for inshore anglers who need to make long casts while still having the strength needed to bring in the big ones.
So let’s dive in to the results of this testing of the best fishing knot for braided line when tying directly to a fluorcarbon leader.
Braid to Leader Knot Contest
Of all the knot connections, this is by far the most important to master because it will almost always be the weakest link in your system due to the fact that you’re using the lightest/thinnest line possible (light braid) to maximize casting range while beefing up the leader material to be able to handle the line shearing jaws of the biggest, baddest, and saltiest of predators you come across out on the water.
Here are the knots that we used in this analysis:
- Improved Albright Knot
- FG Knot (WINNER)
- Slim Beauty
- Double-Double Uni
FG Knot – The Winner of the Contest
The ‘FG Knot’ completely surprised me. When seeing that the leader line didn’t even bend back as all other knots do, I thought that it wouldn’t stand a chance at even being considered for this contest. However, my feelings about it quickly changed after tying it for the first time and watching it beat my most trusted and dependable knot (which was until then undefeated). Considering how small it is along with how easy it is to tie (if using a trick I just found), this is a must-know knot for anyone who uses braided line.
Here’s a video showing the shortcut method to tie this awesome knot:
Improved Albright Knot
The ‘Improved Albright’ knot is very popular on the online forums. I found that it was easy to learn and tie, which likely explains its popularity. In testing different variations of it, I received the best results when using a full 15+ twists and having the main line and tag end on the same side of the leader loop (see 2:32 mark in video below).
Slim Beauty Knot
The ‘slim beauty knot’ was lower on my list for line to line knots. The fact that you have to thread the braid through two very small holes in the leader’s tightened granny knot makes this one very tough to tie in low light conditions, and the strength of it was not quite as high as the others as well. That being said, I found that the strongest way to tie it was in doing 8 wraps up the main line, and then only 4 in the second round going back over the first towards the connection (compared to the 7 and 7 combo that most people seem to use).
Given its performance and relative difficulty to tie, I recommend not using this one so did not include a how-to video.
Double-Double Uni Knot
The ‘double uni knot’ is a common knot that many people trust for their line to line connections. Basically, the double simply signifies that you’re tying a uni knot twice… one at the end of the main line, and another at the end of your leader. In testing with braid to fluoro connections, I found that tying the braid side with a doubled over line increases it strength… which is why I’m refering to this version as the “double-double uni knot”. The video below shows how to tie them both, and it even shows what happens when you test their strengths against one another… spoiler alert – the double-double wins every time!
CONCLUSION
As you see in the diagram below, the FG knot won handily with an average break strength of 20 to 23 lbs… extremely impressive given that the weak line in the connection was only rated at 10 lbs. Needless to say, the FG Knot is a MUST-KNOW for anglers who use braided line.
This diagram shows the head to head matches that took place as part of this analysis. The test consisted on 3 rounds… 3rd round was the winning knot tied against itself to test its strength. The red values below the names of the knots represents the amount of pull strength that the knots where able to withstand in each round. Lines used were 10 lb PowerPro braid and 30 lb Ande Fluorocarbon.
This knot testing is continuous… we’re always seeking out better styles/methods, and we’ll of course update this page as new/better knots come to light.
If you have a great line-to-line knot that is not included here, please leave a comment below about it. We’ll include it in our testing and let you know how it compares to the others.
Note: I sure wish that I would have started testing lines sooner because it was extremely surprising to see my most trusted knots from before proving to be weaker than other knots that I simply never bothered trying.
If you want to skip doing the testing yourself, then click the link below to see the full ranking list of knots that I’ve tested out so far.
Go To Our Knot Testing Homepage [Full Knot Rankings]
![Berkley Vanish Leader Line vs. Mainline [Abrasion & Knot Strength Test Results]](https://s17371.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/vanish-thumb-250x175.jpg "Berkley Vanish Leader Line vs. Mainline [Abrasion & Knot Strength Test Results]")
![How To Tie The “Braid Uni Knot” [Contest Winner]](https://s17371.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/mod-1-250x175.jpg "How To Tie The “Braid Uni Knot” [Contest Winner]")
This knot keeps slipping off my leader and I pay close attention to detail about my wraps and tension. 150lb PowerPro to 80lb Trilene Big Game(which has a noticeably larger diameter). I tighten my knot with hitches before cutting mono and adding two hitches.
after tying the fg knot and then finishing using a series of half hitches I find the half hitches unraveling after a couple of days. Can you recommend your favorite method of preventing this problem other than a drop of super glue?
If you’re having issues with the series of hitches, then try to do a triple hitch to finish it off… meaning that you wrap around the line 3 times instead of just once like the normal hitch knot (it’s similar to a uni knot).
hey im having trouble tying the fg the coils dont lay right one outa 5 is good do i have to much tention on line or am i pulling the loops to tight causing it not to line up help
What lines are you using? The FG knot is designed to protect a lighter braid against a much thicker/stronger leader. If you’re using a lighter leader relative to the braid this knot is much more difficult to tie and it does not hold as well.
If you are using a lighter braid relative to the leader, then you probably are just not applying constant pressure. Try leaning the rod away from you so that the gravity applies the constant pressure.
Hi.
I have a bunch of different leaders pre-tied using barrel swivels (braid on one end, fluorocarbon on the other). Is this a good idea? Are there disadvantages of using barrel swivels?
Thanks!
Barrel swivels are ok in most situations. I personally don’t like them when fishing in shallow water because they weigh down the main line which puts that thinner more fragile line at risk of getting damaged by sharp structure on/near the bottom like oysters, shells, etc.
The only advantage they provide is to decrease line twists, but twisting should be minimal when using most lures… and there is some debate on how many twists they absorb because there is friction on the line when most baits helicopter, and that friction will cause the swivel to not be freely twisting.
I tried this five times and it looked perfect but every time I did my sync knot and went to pull on the leader and the mail line the leader slipped right through… it never tightened…what am I doing wrong?
What lines are you using? My guess is that you’re doing one of two things wrong:
1. You’re using a thick braid to a light mono… this knot is specifically for a lighter braid connecting to a stronger and thicker leader (the FG coils from a thicker braid simply cannot dig in to the outer layer of the mono)
2. You’re not putting constant tension on the braid from the very beginning, and your cutting your tag end off before you tighten the coils (there is sometimes slippage, but it’s typically just 1/16in inch or less before the coils dig in)
Thank you. I recently used this knot offshore for jumbo black seabass. The rig got stuck on the wreck. The mate pulled on the line to get my gear back . The leader came back in tack ,the rig stayed on the wreck. A bluefish bit my line off. I had to retie on the boat. I had no problem what so ever. Great knot! I tied 40lb braid to 80lb florocarbon.
I’ve been trying the FG knot with 10lb PowerPro Slick 8 to a fluorocarbon leader, either 12lb Seaguar Blue Label or 15lb Yo-Zuri HD Carbon. I’ve tied a dozen times with each. The FG knot with Seaguar slipped every time. The FG knot with Yo-Zuri slipped a little more than 50% of the time (7 of 12). The 5 that didn’t slip, still had fluorocarbon line inside the braid wraps. As I was reading through the comments, I saw the surgeon knot mentioned as an alternative. When I looked at the 6 turn surgeon’s knot test, it failed in the 13-19lb range. The chart above shows the double x2 uni failed in the 15-17lb range. I’m curious does the surgeon’s knot fail more often towards the higher range, i.e. 19lb? Just trying to sort out which knot I should use that provide the highest breaking strength since the FG knot isn’t working with the lighter/thinner leaders I’m using. Thanks!
Can’t comment on the breaking strength thing… but I’ve personally had nothing but issues with the PP Slick line regardless of the knot (FG, surgeon, uni)… so many lost fish.
Have switched those reels back to standard old green power pro and slipped knots aren’t an issue anymore.
Outstanding video for all knots! I will change to f
FG knot Evonne though I have had no failures with double uni.
Dear Luke,
The fg knot is the only knot I’ve used since I started fishing 2 years ago. I’ve not had a problem. I recently downsized my braid to 10lb power pro and have applied to a 20lb fluorocarbon leader on one of my reels. I didn’t realize the braid was slick. After landing an over slot fat red the braid and leader came undone. I’m thinking the slick braid is the issue. Or is it the 10/20 combo? What are your thoughts? Thank You…..Louise
Very odd… I use 10 lb PP to 20 lb leader very often and have not had any issues like that yet.
My guess is that the knot somehow got compromised by hitting some underwater structure during the fight with the red because typically the only time I’ve heard of the knot coming undone is when not enough pressure was applied to lock in the coils (the fight with the big red should have def locked in the knot).
It has to be because of the slick braid, I have done all crazy sizes and never failed except with slick stuff
Did you double the braid when tying the slim beauty knot? Doubling the braid to leader connection makes all the difference in the slim beauty strength. I have been using this knot for years and I have never had the line break at the knot unless tied improperly.
I tried it both ways and found that both were weaker than the FG knot and then we difficult for me to tie (but I’m sure it gets easier with practice just like any other knot). If you haven’t yet tried, I recommend tying the FG knot on one end and then tie the doubled slim beauty on the other and pull on one of the leaders until the weaker one breaks after securing the other to a fixed object.
That simple test will reveal which one is stronger, and I’ll be shocked if it’s not the FG knot because its design does a better job at spreading the tension load across a larger surface area in a more consistent manner.
Excellent article. I am a newb to using braided line with mono and the double uni I’ve been using wasn’t reliable.
I have seen several references to unraveling – I wonder if using a drop of Crazy Glue or other glue on the half-hitches would mitigate the risk of this. Thoughts?
Excellant video and explanation. Thank you, I like this better than the Alberto or Albright. Easier to get good results.
This like every knot comparison I have seen is scientifically lacking. The main issue is that none of the comparisons that I have seen have looked at the rate of loading or impulse. By that I mean that some knots may test out with a very high percentage of breaking strength if the load (i.e. pull on the knot) is very slow and continuously increasing, whereas that same knot might have a very low percentage of breaking strength if the load/pull is sudden — as is often the case when a fish hits hard on a relatively short line.
For example, the Palomar knot is highly rated by some in terms of efficiency or percentage of breaking strength of the line. However, I had personal experience where the Palomar was continuing to break upon hard strikes (yellowfin tuna in the 100# class on relatively short lines while live bait fishing. A sportswriter was tying the hooks to 100# mono leader with a Palomar knot that he raved about as being soo reliable for his redfishing inshore, had to be relieved of rigging duty, and the excellent captain had to go back to tying the hooks to the leader with a snell knot and stopped the break-offs.
Someone needs to redo all these internet tests more scientifically with regard to how the force is applied to the knot, and with regard to the lines tied together (relative breaking strength, and type (mono, pe braid, fluoro, etc.).
Only then will fishermen have information that they can rely upon.
I have pulled at different rates on multiple tests and have not seen any noticeable difference in a knot’s performance relative to others from slow continuous pull to a quicker pull. In the example you mentioned, I believe the snell knot won because it’s simply a stronger knot than the palomar knot (in a slow/steady pull as well as in a quick load pull scenario).
I have not yet tested the snell knot because it’s specifically for bare hooks which I rarely use. But it’s on my list of knots to test out. And I’ll be sure to test it using a fast pull and a slow and steady pull as you recommended.
Note: Given the design of the snell knot, I’ll be shocked if the Palomar knot can compete with it given how much better the snell knot does in spreading its tension load across the many coils that have a lot of surface area contact with the hook (the palomar will most likely bread at its load bearing point which is at the first turn in the knot).
you are talking about a whole nother scenario there! the “line to hook” knot is a whole another beast than these tests you are watching. these “line to line” knots are for joining one “line to another line” not to hook. as for the line to hook the “excellent captain” was right to snell the hook that is the most trusted tried and true line to hook knot there is. what you should be complaining about or asking for is an online test for “line to hook” knots.
I mentioned the Palomar versus snell simply as an example of how knots do not perform equally under all conditions — not because I am interested in a leader to hook knot. The fact of the matter (I also have a degree in engineering) is that based on physics, the strength (the breaking point) of anything varies with the rate at which the load is applied to it (impulse). Thus one knot that has high strength when the load is applied very slowly might have much less strength when the load is applied very suddenly (I.e. snapped suddenly as when a fish makes a sudden run very close to the boat, compared to the situation where the fish is pulling against many yards of line that stretches considerably and lowers the impulse). Testing knots with your little digital hand scale is testing what happens in the latter case. I doubt that your little hand scale could accurately record the breaking strength of a knot under the former case. In a professional materials testing laboratory(like I once spent some time working in), very sophisticated instruments that record the forces and stretch over tiny increments of time are used to determine strengths of materials. Your hand scale can’t do that. In the past, DuPont used to test lines with such a laboratory for it’s Stren products.
Also, any knot’s strength, is likely to be very highly influenced by a number of other factors, primarily the sizes of the two lines in tests of line to leader knots. Other factors would include the type of materials (nylon mono versus fluoro, or copolymer).
I mention all of this not as criticism of your knot tests. Instead it is just given to help fishermen understand that they can’t strictly rely on such tests if their fishing involves conditions different from those of the test, like line sizes/types etc. I applaud your testing because it gives anglers more information, but the information is not universally accurate. I urge you and others to do more testing of knots under a greater variety of conditions. Furthermore, I suggest that knot-to-knot competition (tying two knots in the same line, and then the leader to each end) might be the only way to realistically compare knot strengths outside of a materials testing laboratory. Individual anglers can even do this themselves to compare how knots work for their various lines/leaders/conditions.
Hope this helps,
I completely agree that there is never going to be an all-inclusive knot strength test because of the countless factors that can make a difference including the rate of force, sizes of the lines, types of line, brands of lines, etc.
This test was to take a stab at logging results from controlled tests with specific types of lines and gradual application of force which is what I believe happens most while fishing given that the flexing of the rod and stretching of the line help lessen quick spikes of tension from a fish’s movements… and this is especially true when approaching a knot’s max breaking strength because the reels drag should be letting line out well before the breaking point is reached.
Given the many variables, I highly encourage every angler to measure the strength of their line/leader assemblies so that their drag can be set at the appropriate tension.
Luke,
Would you be willing to give it a try?
Try as I may, I’m unable to get the FG knot hold when connecting Power Pro 20lb braid to And 25lb fluorocarbon.
Have you been able to successfully tie the FG knot with Ande fluorocarbon?
Yes, I use Ande fluorocarbon often and haven’t had any issues. However, I use 10 lb PowerPro to tie to the 25 lb fluoro so perhaps the thicker 20 lb braid is too thick to be able to dig in the proper groves into the outer layer of the leader.
yes the 20# is too thick to properly “dig in” however you need to stretch the line a little harder? dont be too afraid to break it! you have to pull hard to make this knot work efficiently.
Thanks to Salt Strong and the Simond Brothers, I am now using the FG knot on a regular basis. I would like to see the six turn Yucutan knot (double line) included in the test.
Hey John, I tested the FG knot against the Yucatan knot on a doubled line (doubling via spider hitch & bimini twist if multiple tests), and the FG knot tied on the single line held up to the Bimini/Yucatan combo as well as the spider hitch/yucatan combo.
The one doubling combo I found that beat the FG knot on a single line was the doubling of the braid with a 30+ turn bimini twist combined with tying an FG knot with the doubled line.
I use to use a Double Uni however since I converted to the FG, Ive had no “Unexplained Breakaways”! Losing the fish to a l
“Line Problem” has narrowed to cut Leader, not my knot! Go FG!
I tie a bead on the end of the main line so my teeth can hold it without jaw cramp. I clamp a hemostat on the fluorocarbon so it does not get loose and tug the fluorocarbon straight after each wrap. This works for 8 LB braid and 8 LB fluorocarbon.
Good idea Bill! Thanks for sharing the tip. Tight Lines!
Will the FG knot work for a mono to leader connection? Thanks!
The FG knot is not good for mono to leader connections… just braid to leader. Here’s a link to a mono to leader knot contest that I held last year (3 turn Surgeon’s knot won): https://www.saltstrong.com/articles/strongest-line-to-line-knot/
Will the fg knot work for a braid to braid leader connection? Here on the East Coast of South Africa, we have to cast our lures more than 100m for some species. Braid leaders reduce drag and also protects the main braid line while casting.
The FG knot will not work for braid to braid connections. Here’s the best knot I’ve been able to find for braid to braid: https://www.saltstrong.com/articles/strongest-braid-to-braid-fishing-knot/
Thank you, I am presently joining 20-30lb braid to 50-60Ib braid with a cat’s paw. The loops that form the cat’s paw are a bimini in the main line and a stitched loop in the leader. Perhaps it would be stronger than the uni to uni knot.
i have a better knot than any of these and would only reveal knot if i am given credit for its creation and some sort of compensation
Please send over instructions on how to tie it and I’ll be happy to test it out (luke@saltstrong.com). I’ll of course give you full credit for your knot and will display its name as anything you want assuming it’s an original.
Thanks for the great video. I was searching for why my line kept breaking and thanks to your comments I realized my 8 lb fluoro was breaking because it’s so much weaker than the 20lb braid I had on my spinning rod. My next question is will this knot be OK under the pressure of setting a skirted jig hook with say 20 lb braid and 20 lb fluoro? I lost one with 30 lb braid and 12 lb fluro, but that was probably due to the difference in lb test again. Any thoughts? Appreciate the help.
Hey Reed, the FG knot should hold for 20 lb braid to 20 lb fluoro (be sure to test it out before using it though).
Note: If you’re most often going after fish that can be caught on a 20 lb to 30 lb leader, then I highly recommend doing down to a 10 lb braid because you’ll get better casting performance without losing much overall line strength.
Braid is typically much stronger than it’s rating, so even the light braid can bring in big fish… here’s a video showing a decent sized tarpon get landed on 10 lb braid using the FG knot (I had maxed down the drag and even palmed the spool at times to get him in assuming that the line would break, but it help up very well): https://youtu.be/K9cJeyjxeFk
Ive always gone with the crazy Alberto knot which I really like. The FG knot is better for strength, any issues with it going out the eyes of a light action rod? Quick question on using topwaters with flouro. Ive heard is not good to use flouro with tops because it sinks. Ive heard its best to use mono with tops because it stays on the surface allowing the lure to move correctly. Just wondering because I love flouro, but I use mono on my tops for this reason. Thanks for all the hard work you guys do and the information on here is great. Keep Pluggin!
Hey Travis, thanks for making time to leave the comment.
When fishing topwater lures, I wouldn’t worry about the sinking rate of fluoro vs. mono because the difference in lure action will not be noticeable since the leader is so short. As for a sinking line with topwater, sometimes that’s actually good because it lets the plug go just below the surface which makes for a more natural look and increases bite to hookset ratio. In face, I sometimes even tie swivels on the top end of my leader when topwater fishing to help them get down… but I’ve not been able to tell a difference between using a fluoro and mono leader.
In answer to the FG knot going through guides, I do not recommend casting any knot through guides on a consistent basis because the friction from hitting the guides will weaken any knot. That being said, I do cast the FG knot through guides on occasion when skipping lures and have not had any issues with it coming apart (just make sure to cinch the knot down all the way so that the FG coil closest to the lure is dug into the leader).
Fish On!
I liked the Slim Beauty. I liked the FG/Sebille. But I dont like how the tag end of the Flouro is just dangling there.
I found the Red Phillips knot and modified it.
Mine is complicated but whatever.
I tie a bimini twist on the braid mainline.
I feed the doubled mainline through the single overrhand knot.
Tighen the overhand knot down. I fold the leader line back on itself following the Red Phillips.
I use the double mainline to do the wraps but I use the Slim Beauty way instead of the Red Phillips way.
Pull it tight and you are now left with a length of doubled loop mainline.
Now I do a 3 or 4 wrap unit over the mainline and cut.
I have no idea its strength but I havent broken it off yet LOL.
I have tested the red phillips knot against the FG knot, and the FG won. The alterations you described look like good improvements… mostly due to the fact that you make the extra effort to double the braid with the bimini twist.
I’ll be doing a test soon with doubled lines, so I’ll be curious to see how the bimini compares to other options like the surgeon, spider hitch, etc… and then I’ll put the winner against the FG knot to see if doubling the line is worth it (it’ll make the final knot stronger, but the weak point may very well be the knot used to double the line.
Cool, I look forward to the doubled line tests. The Slim Beauty I learned how to tie used a doubled main line. I just thought, Why not use a Bimini twist instead? Still the FG is pretty easy doing it the way you show. I just do a bunch of half hitches and uni’s to wrap over the leader tag end. Thanks for the videos.
The FG knot works well with thin lines (braid at or under 30# and mono under 25#. When I used 40# braid and 80# mono, the knot pulled out three different times under shock strikes. Watched the video three more times and still the same result. Any suggestions?
Hey David, when using heavier line, it is very important to put it under a lot of pressure before fishing with it (enough pressure to make sure that they braid coils dig groves into the outer layer of the leader).
Here’s a video that I made that discusses this common mistake with the FG knot: https://www.saltstrong.com/articles/fg-knot-mistake/.
I live down here in FL Keys. Fish Backcountry and blue water. Snappers to wahoo with most all reels set up with braid/mono/fluoro. Last 10 yrs I have used the Yucatan knot . I’m using 8# thru 100# braid and all fluoro/mono up to 50#.I find it easy to tie with little chance of bad knot. Never tested the true breaking point BUT never had breakage at knot.Not to beat my own drum but really don’t have my knots break it is most the time it’s the snap or hook straighting out.One note is I keep my reel drags in great shape and always retie braid to fluoro/mono knot when worked hard .also keep fresh fluoro/mono spools out of the sun.Not that I have tried all the knots out there over the last 40yrs + but I have keep up with the new fad. The Yucatan works very well for me and my clients .The fg is a great knot but to meany steps to make bad knot on bouncing boat .just my 2cents on this topic.
Tried the FG knot a few times and after 50-100 casts and several fish, found it unraveled. Maybe I tied it wrong. Tying 10# braid to 20# fluorocarbon.
Were you casting it through the guides all 50 to 100 casts? If so, the friction from the knot hitting the rod tips may have caused that first loop to loosen. And if it’s lose and gets caught on a rod tip during a cast, then it has a change of unraveling.
I recommend not casting any knot through guides because the friction will weaken any of them.
If you do it with the FG knot, then perhaps tie a couple less coils (I often use 16 when in a hurry and have never had an issue with it) so the final loop (closest to the lure) digs down as deep as possible.
And if you cast it through guides, make sure to check it every ~50 casts to make sure that the final coil is still set tightly without any blemishes.
Hey Thomas, did you watch this “#1 Mistake When Tying The FG Knot” – This is the same mistake that I did the first few times: https://www.saltstrong.com/articles/fg-knot-mistake/
Luke I like the fg not for its clean look but I have a problem with it failing over time. I fish freshwater and attach 12 to 15 Fluor to 20 – 50# braid. Knot seems perfect at this point. It may last for several hundred casts and even a few fish (on the days I actually catch a bass or two) then for no reason will just fail. My suspicion is that repeatedly bringing the knot back through the guides actually works to loosen the knot the same as pushing backwards on “Chinese handcuffs”. Anybody else have this issue. I have watched video over and over and know to pull the knot tight. I must be missing something. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Hey Tom, I have heard a few others mention an issue like what you described, and they all seem to have the two characteristics… 1) tying a light fluoro to a heavier braid and 2) repeatedly casting knots through the guides
1) I recommend using braid that is equal to or less than the listed breaking strength of your fluoro leader because you’ll get better casting performance without losing any overall line strength (example: the final knot to the lure on my 20 lb fluoro breaks before my 10 lb braid does when using the FG knot)… and 10 lb braid is plenty to handle any bass (here’s a ~50 lb tarpon that was caught on 10 lb braid using the FG knot: https://youtu.be/K9cJeyjxeFk).
2) Don’t cast any knot through guides on a repeated basis because the friction will wear down any knot. With the FG knot, the most impact will be on the loop that’s closest to the lure, and if that gets compromised, then the knot will fail. One tip to help ensure this doesn’t happen is to do fewer coils (16) so that the tightening of the knot will dig the final coil in a bit deeper into the leader leaving less exposed to the rod guides. Another would be to use a 2 ft leader and only real the knot into the guides when having to make a very targeted cast like skipping up under a dock.
Can the FG knot replace the nail knot connecting leader to flyline?
And what does FG stand for?
Hey Galen, I have not yet tested the FG knot on fly line. Although I have heard that it works, I’d recommend tying it on a spare length of fly line and pulling to make sure that it doesn’t slide off because the density and composition of the outer layer of fly lines varies.
If you do test it, please let me know what lines you’re using and how it performs so I can pass your findings on to the next person who asks. Fish On!
I have tied many knots in my time. The modified Allbright has been my go – to knot. Similar in concept.
I have followed directions to the T (obviously Knot).
Allbright has a 180 loop.
The leader always pulls through the wonderful looking “Chinese Handcuff” twist. More times that I care to admit.
What am I doing wrong ??
I just got my new Kistler rod and the tip guide is no more than 3/16″ – tight.
I am looking forward to minimizing the diameter of my tip line/leader knot.
Please advise
Hey Mark, my first guess is that the tag ends may have been cut before the braid coils of the FG knot dig their groves into the outer layer of the leader. Here is a post we recently made to highlight this common mistake with the FG knot.
http://v2.saltstrong.com/articles/fg-knot-mistake/
The first few times I tried the FG it was not a nice smooth knot. I realized I had to much tension on the braid and it looked like I had a ball of flouro. Once I relaxed the braid a bit the loops laid nice and flat and had a perfect knot. Thanx for introducing me to the FG. I think I have it down!
My pleasure, Steve. Yes, the best way to tie the FG knot is with just enough tension on the line to keep the coils close to one another in a consistent manner… I’ve tried a ton of different ways, and leaning the rod down with gravity as the tension provider is my go-to method.
Fish On!
Has anybody ever tried the AG chain knot to tie mono to a swivel or speed jig. Its a big knot and time consuming to tie but I would like to see how it stacks up against the Palomar knot.
I tried it out a few months ago on braid and it wasn’t quite as strong as the modified uni knot that won the braid to swivel contest… http://v2.saltstrong.com/articles/best-fishing-knot-for-braided-line-swivel-hook-lure/.
For mono, I personally recommend using loop knots at to tie to the lure/hook to allow for maximum action of the lure/bait. The drawback of loop knots is that they aren’t as strong as snug knots like the Palomar, but that’s normally a non-issue when saltwater fishing due to having to beef up the leader to hold up to the sharp/rough mouths of most game species (even a weaker know on a heavy leader is stronger than the knot from the much lighter main line to the top end of the leader).
That being said, I do plan to test the chain knot out against a few strong snug knots for mono at some point soon… it’s on the to-do list.
I’ve tried them all. The very best braid to mono or fluorocarbon knot is the FG knot. It’s sleeker, stronger and far less complicated to tie. The way I used to tie it was very difficult UNTIL I saw your how to video on how you tie it. That was an enormous help. Thank you, Joe and Luke for your amazingly helpful videos, but if I add a small variation to the already indestructible FG knot do I get to rename it and call it my own?
Thanks for making time to leave the nice message about this FG knot video and our site. Joe and I are grateful to have your support.
Yes, you’re welcome to call any knot you tie with an extra twist or loop whatever you’d like, but just be sure to not accuse others of stealing your idea if they figure it out on their own:)
In San Diego I have begun to use a John Collins or Fisherman’s knot for Fluoro to Braid
When carefully tied I have found it extremely strong
You may want to give it a test …. you will be pleasantly surprised . . . . even if only 5 wraps up and 5 wraps down for a small knot
use the PR knot for heavier lines when mono is over 80 lb , works fantastic for jigging
Why cant I find best way to tie braided
.. to swivel on a leader
Here’s a link to a contest we did for tying braided line to a swivel: http://v2.saltstrong.com/articles/best-fishing-knot-for-braided-line-swivel-hook-lure.
The Fish-N-Fool knot is the strongest braid to a metal eye knot that there is period. Check out my Utube video on it.
hmm does it really matter who came up with the knot …as im sure we as fishermen all have our own way of tying knots and , its just another persons idea we are using , im sure we all use each others idea,s on knots & tackle ,baits etc etc etc ,,,, so we are only helping each other ,,,, thats how i see it …….( only saying )
I bang bottom a lot for snapper and grouper . I was wondering if I could use this with bigger mono . I use 80-120lb braid and about the same in a leader .
Yes, the FG knot as well as the others can all be used with heavier line. For the FG knot, you’ll need to put a lot of pressure on the coils before cutting the tags… takes a lot for the thicker braid to dig notches into the mono. Once it grabs, it’ll hold on for good. Fish On!
After watching this and a few other videos I switched from using an Albright and uni knot. This knot has amazing strength and after some practice was fairly easy to tie. Great knot and great video
Hey David, thanks so much for leaving the nice comment! I’m glad you enjoyed this FG knot video, and I hope you catch some huge fish while using it very soon.
Hello, can i use FG knot for trolling? If so, where i will put the swivel to prevent line twist? Is it, braid –> Flouro Carbon Leader (using FG Knot) —> Swivel —> Wire Trace—> snap? Thank you very much!
Hey Jhun, yes, you can tie it that way. However, when using a swivel, I do not using the FG knot. Instead, I tie the braid to the swivel and then connect the leader from there.Here’s a link to a contest I did for seeing which knot is strongest for connecting a braided line to a swivel: http://v2.saltstrong.com/articles/best-fishing-knot-for-braided-line-swivel-hook-lure/.
Many thanks Sir!
If you are going to steal somebodies ideas it would be nice if you gave them credit for it. I invented this way of tying this knot many years ago while pike fishing for joining 80 lb. fluoro leaders to 65 lb braid. I also show how to tie this on You-tube but i don’t hold the line in my mouth and try to talk too. LOL
Hey Rick, I’m sorry you got the impression that I was claiming to be the one who came up with this quick way to tie the FG knot. That certainly was not my intention when making this video… I made it simply because I couldn’t find any FG knot tutorials that showed exactly how the braid coils form when tying it this way. Fortunately, I didn’t give credit to the YouTube video where I learned this style of tying it because it wasn’t from the one you made, so I would have been giving credit to the wrong person.
Some other guy left a comment on our YouTube comment board claiming that someone else created this easy method of tying the FG knot. But don’t worry, I let them know about your video since you previously left the comment claiming to be the founder of it a few months ago (I haven’t have time to dig through all the others to check upload dates… just taking your word for it).
Anyhow, I hope this helps you understand my intentions for this tutorial being 100% about teaching anglers this cool FG knot with absolutely no intent on claiming ownership of this tying method or the knot itself. We wish you and your Fish-N-Fool company the very best. Fish On!
To Fish-N-Fool,Electricians have been variation of this knott to pull wire over long distances using p-line or rope for a very long time. They tie a loop, then criss-cross the lines around the wire creating the “finger-cuff,” then to finish they whip the ends with electrical tape to hold the knot in place and smooth the head out so it doesn’t snag. As noted the harder it is pulled on the tighter it gets.Not to say you didn’t create it, just to point out that a Trade has been using it for decades.
Thanks for the great video. I’ll give it a try in the morning.
I think the version of the Improved Albright in your video is not any version of an Albright. Albright knots always wrap around themselves and two lines of the leader. This one only wraps around two lines of the leader. The Improved Albright is like the regular Albright but has a lock tied at the top. The Modified Albright (Alberto), loops down and then loops back up. The better version of this ties a clinch knot at the end to prevent the braid from slipping through. An Improved or Modified Albright should yield a 97% of the line or better strength.Their may be a version of an Albright like this but I have never seen an Albright not finish its loops where it started.
Hey Cameron, I just wanted to let you know that I updated the video for the Improved Albright knot in this post. When researching it, I saw tons of different methods. I did some quick tests, and the style in this video seemed to work best.
Please let me know if you have a better way of tying this knot.Note: When testing with that same 10 lb braid to 30 lb fluorocarbon, I got results that were still in the 15 lb to 18 lb breaking strength, which was better than that first method, but still not quite as strong as the FG knot.
Thanks again for the very helpful comments. Fish On!
That is a pretty standard Improved Albright but the lock on the knot is more loops than I would use but not sure that matters. The Modified Albright (aka Alberto or the Paulus Albright) has been tested by numerous people usually to 97-100 percent of the line strength. This is the knot I use and recommend because it can be tied VERY quickly, in rough water and in the dark. I do seven twists down, seven twists up and unlike the standard version of this I tie two overhand knots with the braid tag end so it has a locking knot. This knot also works well with fluoro to wire and will not fail using super slick braid/fluoro.
Hey Cameron, thanks for the quick reply and the great knot analysis info! Have you experimented with different styles of the Alberto knot? I was doing some testing last week tying three versions of it with 15 wraps in total to analyze the impact of different orders of the wraps… 5 away with 10 back, 8 away with 7 back, and then 10 away with 5 back. In the first round of testing these three styles, the third one with 10 away and 5 back surprised me by outperforming the others (although the win was only 2 out of 3 and the breaking points were not as consistent as I like, so I’ll need to spend more time tying them).
I have tried numerous versions and have found that there is a sweet spot with the number of loops. Too many down or up and the knot is hard to pull tight and prone to loops going under loops weakening the knot. 3 down and 10 up or 7 down and 7 up seem to the be strongest I have found but I fish a mix of 20# Suffix braid/ 25# Toray fluro and 50# Suffix braid/80# Seagur fluro/105# wire. I also add on Bondic when finishing any knot between fishing trips. Adding a simply lock knot is important to any version of the Albright.
I first discovered the need for this when I joined fluoro to wire as the knot kept slipping under load. Two simple overhand knots fixed it. I have been experimenting with two wraps between the braid and the leader before running it through to tighten. Similar to what this guy does in his video:https://youtu.be/SfJ-SyJky_o?t=98Not sure that it is better but seems to be working just as well as the overhand knots and not as bulky on heavy braid.
No Albright will be as small running through guides as the FG but given how easy it is to tie and working a broader range of applications certainly one to have in an anglers knot toolbox. Due to my selection of line and leader, I rarely… very rarely break off at the knot. My break offs are almost entirely in the fluoro a few inches above the hook.
Hey Cameron, fantastic knot analysis info!!! It’s very much appreciated. Yes, the Albright is easy to tie and it’s cool to learn that it works on wire too (I would not trust the FG knot for tying a braided line to a wire leader).
It seems to me that the FG knot is the same diameter as the Albright knot. When you tie the 2 half hitches at the end, you are doubling the Flouro back onto itself, essentially making the same diameter as the Albright, at least at the end.
I’ve tried tying the FG knot several times, and do like it. I’m still trying to wrap my brain around how it actually works.
It would be really nice if there were a way to tie it without the half hitches..
Hey Gray, the half hitches should only be tied with the braid (at no point does the leader line need to be doubled over in the FG knot). I do the first two hitches on the fluoro leader, and then the other two above it. However, you of course can use any sort of finishing knot to complete the FG… the hitch knots are not load bearing (only there to keep the coils in place).
This knot works like one of those Chinese finger traps that many kids play with… where the pressure on the coils causes them to constrict tighter and tighter as more pressure is applies. And the reason why it’s stronger than most other knots is because the coils spread the load of the line across a longer range more evenly than any other line to line knot that we’ve tested.
Luke, thanks for the reply. I went back and watched the video again, this time with my eyes open!. I thought he was tying the hitches with the fluoro leader till I watched it again.
The knot is forever mine now.
Hahah… I’m very glad to see that you mastered the FG knot. It is only useful for braid to mono/fluoro, but it’s surprisingly strong relative to its competitors while also being the most slim.
I hope you land some huge fish while using it soon… Fish On!
I believe it is a friction knot. It relies on the tightening of the braid around the fluoro for its strength. One of the reasons I avoid the knot is because I am not sure it can retain its strength with all types of fluoro/braid combinations. Particularly small diameter braid on top of stiff fluoro I think would be less secure. For example a braid with Spectra and something like Toray Super Hard Strong would seem to be a poor match for this knot. I wouldn’t think it would work with any kind of wire either. This is why at least to me the Albright/Alberto is a better general knot. Easier to tie, no special line requirements, very hard to mess up and relatively small. Course I don’t pull my knots through my guides so the knot size is less of an issue.
Hey Cameron, great to hear from you again. Yes, this FG knot relies on friction created from the coils tightening on the braid… and its ability to never slide off is due to the small groves that it digs into the mono/fluoro as the coils constrict onto the leader. In my testing, I’ve found that the lighter braids perform quite well. Especially the 8 lb to 10 lb tied to a leader of 20 lbs or more. I’ve never used the Toray Super Hard Strong leader with it, but the Seagaur Blue Label is a pretty hard bodied line and the FG works great on it (here’s a nice tarpon catch using 10 lb braid to 30 lb Seaguar leader – https://youtu.be/K9cJeyjxeFk).
The only situation I’ve seen so far that does not work well with the FG knot to connect braid to fluorocarbon is when the lines are closer in diameter… a 30 lb braid going to a less than 30 lb leader can’t dig the necessary groves to lock in on the leader (same with trying it on a wire leader… if it can’t dig the groves, it won’t hold).
But when the lines are right (PowerPro braid to a heavier/thicker mono/fluoro), this FG knot has consistently outperformed the very popular Albright, Alberto, Double Uni, Surgeon, Bimini/Bristol, etc. knots in terms of pure breaking strength in my testing of it.
I believe that its breaking strength is so high because it’s uniform coils throughout its body does a better job at spreading the load of the line more consistently over a wider area compared to others.
If you haven’t yet tested the FG knot out on your lines of choice, then I highly recommend doing so because it completely shocked me once I finally gave it a shot (no fancy equipment needed… just tie two different knots on the same strand of line and pull until one of them breaks [but be careful to secure both ends and ensure your face/body is not going to get hit with the recoil after it breaks]).
Toray is much stiffer and “harder” than most fluoros with less stretch at least for a fluoro. I actually think Seagaur is soft in comparison. We use 20lb Suffix braid to 25lb Toray and often the Owner/Daichi hook breaks before the line/knot does in this combination. One of my buddies still uses 30lb Seagaur but every time he breaks off I make a crack. Try the Toray some time as it is a very strong fluoro that holds up to multiple big catches and a lot of abrasion. I landed a 100lb stingray (cut bait) that pulled the boat around for a good 15 minutes using that combination last week and a few hours later landed a baby tarpon (pilchard) on the same rig without a retire or leader change. I thought for sure I had the biggest red fish in Matlacha until we saw the ray. Then I thought for sure it was going to break the line, break the rod (cheap Calico Jack) or break the reel (Stradic FJ 2500). Surprisingly nothing snapped or broke.
I have tested the FG Knot several times (the old way and the new way) with my line combination. It cost me a couple catches due to the knot slipping but that could have been user error. Given that is a more difficult knot to tie than the modified Alberto, I went back to what works for me. I have not tried it on our heavy rigs since I don’t trust it on 50lb braid to 80lb fluoro and cannot be used on 80lb fluoro to 100lb wire.
Thanks for the very helpful comment Jonathan!
What style of the Alberto knot do you tie? I’ve seen people teach it with 5 wraps up and then 5 back while some others use different variations. It sounds like you’re using a great combo of wraps with a 100 lb stingray catch… those things are incredibly strong.
Gray, the fg knot does not double up the flouro in any way. The flouro always stays as a single line if tied correctly. You don’t need to add the last 2 hitches after you clip the braid, they always come undone eventually anyway. I also always do 4-6 hitches before tightening and trimming the leader tag. If you tie the fg correctly and use the same line to tie an Albright, lay them side by side. The Albright will definitely be bigger, as well. It also does not have a smooth transition from leader to braid due to the doubled leader line.
Luke. What is the best braided line to use? I have used power pro and spiderwire. I use a 15lb test for surf fishing and fishing in the creeks. what is your opinion? thank you
My personal favorite is PowerPro, but I haven’t tested out very many other braided lines. I use 10 lb PowerPro for fishing the flats/backcountry, and 20 lb when fishing for grouper or snook in heavy cover/current.
Nice article, thanks. I’ve been an FG convert ever since I was taught how to tie it. There is an even easier method of tying it that doesn’t require using one’s teeth: basically a small, tight loop of braid is made in the left hand, and the leader is held in the right hand and weaves around the braid under tension.Re: “the FG knot won handily with an average break strength of 20 to 23 lbs… extremely impressive given that the weak line in the connection was only rated at 10 lbs.” It’s obviously physically impossible for the main line to become stronger by adding a knot to it. What is in fact happening is that the marketed line strength is often completely unrelated to true line strength, e.g. I’ve seen test strength anywhere from 80% to 250% of the labelled strength. In future tests, it would be good to also test the strength of the braid and leader on their own to get a better idea of true line strength.
Hey Dave, thanks so much for leaving the extremely helpful comment. Yes, I completely agree with you that testing the true breaking strength of the two lines is essential to truly judge exactly how strong the knot is compared to the line’s true breaking strength (and it has to be under 100% because all knots create a load bearing point that will always break before the main line). However, I don’t have one of those fancy tension scales so I relied on good ol’ fashioned head-to-head match-ups where I tied two knots on the same strand of line, and I then pulled on it until the weaker one busted. The scale was only used to get a rough idea as to how much tension was on the line at the breaking point… all ranking data int his knot contest was based on which knot beat the competitor regardless of what tension the scale recorded. Also, thanks for the tip on tying the FG knot without using teeth… I’ll give that version a try. Fish On!
Awesome video. I’ve been using swivels for years and now I can say good by to them. i cant wait to try the FG knot!! thx for the great video
Hey Shane, yes, we highly recommend using the FG knot instead of a swivel for connecting your main line to your leader (unless you’re using a lure like a spoon that does a lot of twisting… then it’s best to use a swivel to protect your line from the twists). Thanks for leaving a comment. We hope to hear from you again. Fish On!
Luke, when using the FG knot how do I use a lead weight on the line that allows the line to slide through without the weight going all the way down to the hook. when I used a swivel the swivel would stop the weight from sliding down to the hook? I surf fish alot and use pyramid weights or oval weights. thanks in advance.
Hey Shane, great question about finding a way to get an egg weight to not slip down the line when using the FG knot.
Here’s the short version… I always try to protect the weakest point in the system (typically the main line knot to the leader/swivel), so I do not connect a weight to it. Plus, I try to strategically plan the system so I can get most of my gear back if I get snagged on the bottom.
Here’s the long version… when bottom fishing for grouper, I use 30 lb braid and tie the FG knot to a 1.5 ft length of 80 lb mono. I then thread an egg weight to the mono and tie a Perfection Loop knot to the end of the 80 lb mono, which leaves an open loop at the end of the mono that blocks the weight from sliding down (the weight slides on the strongest line in the system). Next, I tie my leader line (either 50 or 60 lb fluoro) to the loop in the mono as if it was a hook eye using an Orvis knot before tying the hook to the other end using a Kreh Loop knot. The benefit of using this way allows for the weight to slide on the heaviest line in the system to prevent it from wearing down the weaker braid or fluoro. Using the loop knot at the end (which is weaker than snug knots), allows for that knot to be the weakest link (just barely) in the system, so if there is a hangup, a break-off most often results in the break occurring right at the hook so all that’s required to get back in action is simply tying on a new hook to the end of the fluoro. I do not use pyramid weights often, but when I do, I use a swivel and tie the braid to it (using the Modified Uni) and then tie the weight to the other side of the swivel with a short strand of mono that is slightly lighter than the leader line. Then, I tie the leader line to the bottom eye of the swivel as well before tying on the hook. The purpose of this style is because the pyramid weight is often what gets snagged on the bottom, so the slightly lighter line tied to it allows for you to at least get back the everything but the weight in the even of a snag.
Hopefully this helps. If you’re not familiar with the knots mentioned above, sign on to this page and you’ll see details into a knot contest I put together to evaluate the top knots for each connection (http://v2.saltstrong.com/the-strongest-fishing-knot-contest).
The “FG” shown here is an awesome knot and something I’ve been using for years, although I consider the knot shown to be more of a Naples knot, which finishes with a single half hitch.A true FG is multiple half hitches, and it’s kinda overkill honestly. The above knot is more than sufficient for almost all applications. Hell, I even use it tying my fly line to backing.
Hey TB, thanks so much for leaving a comment. I was not even aware of the Naples knot, so thanks for the details. Yes, I’ve seen other versions of the FG knot which included many half hitches at he very end. I tested a version of 2 half hitches vs. 6 half hitches for a strength test, and could not see any added strength when using the 6. The only time when I use more than 2 is when the cut of my tag end is longer than normal requiring more than just two half hitches to build up a braid buffer above the hard edge of the fluoro’s tag end. Also, thanks so much for sharing your use of it with fly line to backing… we’ve had several people ask about that. Fish On!
Try tying these knots when the wind is blowing and the boats rocking…..
Thanks for leaving a comment. Yes, many of these line to line fishing knots can be tough when the wind is blowing and the boat is rocking. Just like most other things, practice makes perfect.
Have you tested the PR knot? will beat all the knots you tested including the FG
Hey Kevin, thanks for leaving a comment. We did not include the PR knot in this contest because all tutorials I could find on it involved having to have a special tool and we wanted to include only knots that can be tied without any special equipment. I have a bobbin for tying flys and jigs that should be able to help me tie this knot correctly, so I’ll give the PR knot a try soon in order to test out its strength against the FG knot. Thanks again for your comment. We hope to hear from you again. Fish On!
I tie a knot called a figure 8 I have never seen anyone tie it before except myself. I teach every one I can.. I have won over 100 offshore nearshore tournaments. I got extra credit in capt school for it they had never seen it before. It is as small as your best knot and also the tag is nonexistant.
Hey Tommy, thanks for the great comment. I’m very curious to hear more about your Figure 8 knot. Would you be willing to share it with our Salt Strong community? If so, please leave details in this comment area or send an email to fish@saltstrong.com. Either way, I’ll be happy to test it out against the others and report the findings.
alright I ford called a Tommy not
I have been using this knot for about 6 months. From 15 lb to 40 lb. It is hands down the best. Most often the heavier leader breaks before the knot. Plus it goes thru the guides easy.It is a little harder to tie than some knots , but well worth the time!!
Hey Capt. Jamie, thanks so much for leaving the nice comment! Yes, this FG Knot sure is nice… I certainly wish I knew about it sooner. After a few times using this method of tying it while holding the tag end in my teeth with the rod leaning away, I have been able knock it out just as fast as my prior favorite. Let me know if you ever find a faster method because I’m all about maximizing fish catching time when out on the water.
great knot, alot of guys here in South africa are starting to use this knot on their grinder setups for in edibles fishing. seen some big sharks and skates landed on this knot. 48-80lb braid with .80-1mm flouro/nylon leader.
I’m glad to see that it performs well with the big tackle as well… thanks for leaving the great comment!
Thats an awesome knot, what’s the heaviest leader you’ve attached to braid?
We’re thrilled to see that you enjoyed the knot demo. So far, I’ve only personally used it for 10 lb braided line to 20-30 lb fluoro (on the flats) and for 30 lb braid to 60 lb mono for some grouper fishing… a comment just came in mentioning that it works great on 48-80 braid with .8-1mm flour/nylon leader too. Please let us know how you do with it.
Great video Luke! How did the surgeon knot line up?
Hey Kyle, thanks for the nice comment. The surgeon knot performed well…. breaking strength was in the 15 lb to 19 lb range, which is very impressive on 10 lb braid. The FG knot still holds on to the top spot, but this 5 turn with doubled braid Surgeon knot put up a great fight. Here’s a video of the final test in case you want to see it – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jYTtkGgkb4.
Good stuff!
Thanks for nice comment, Sam. We hope this experiment was helpful to you… more to come soon.
I tie the slim beauty knot but when i tie it i wrap the braid down the leader like in the video but then i wrap the braid agian going the opposite way (going back up the leader) and then go through the loop and pull tight
Hey Anthony, thanks for leaving a great comment! Glad to see that you take the extra time to maximize your knot strength. After this experiment, I certainly recommend giving that FG Knot a try… its performance certainly sold me (I used to rely on the Uni). We hope you can find time to get out on the water soon and catch some big ones.
Have you guys tried a surgeon’s knot with doubled braid? I use it with 5 wraps and have never had a failure, and that’s a whole crap load of Tarpon caught in all those years of using it.
Hey Tony, thanks for the suggestion… I’ll give this a try very soon and let you know how it compares with the 10b braid to 30b leader example.
Hey Tony, I just finished testing your knot and am pleased to report it held up very well… breaking strength was in the 15 lb to 19 lb range. The FG knot still holds on to the top, but this 5 turn with doubled braid Surgeon knot did very well and was very easy to tie. Here’s a video of the final test in case you want to see it – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jYTtkGgkb4.
That’s a really cool knot. I wonder if it would work attaching flyline to leader/tippet? Seems easier than the nail knot
I’ve never tried the FG knot on flyline… we’ll give that a shot soon. My worry is that the outer material of the flyline could possibly slide off without the leader/tippet being able to dig into the core material of the flyline, but only one way to find out. Thanks for the idea.