The ALBRIGHT vs The ALBERTO vs The FG KNOT [Strength Contest]
- By: Luke Simonds
- on March 17, 2020
It’s “FISHING KNOT OFF” Time!
After posting our first braid to leader fishing knot contest in which the FG knot was the surprise winner, many readers have asked for us to test out more of their favorites…
And the two most commonly requested knots were hands down where as follows:
- “Albright Knot“
- “Alberto Knot“
These two knots are actually very similar so I was curious to see which one was the strongest of the two…
I was even more curious to see how that stronger one did against the FG knot (our current reigning braid to leader champion)
So this post is going to cover exactly that… first, we’ll put the Albright knot against the Alberto knot.
And then we’ll put the winner up of that “Knot Off” against the reigning champion, the FG knot.
Albright Knot vs. Alberto Knot
These two knots are extremely similar. Both of them start and end the exact same way, but the style of line wraps in the middle section of these knots are what separates them.
And for this contest, our core focus is to determine which style provides the strongest connection.
So we’re going to make sure to use the same amount of wraps for each one in order to see which one is best.
Note: All tests are using the same spools of fishing line (10 lb PowerPro to 30 lb Ande fluorocarbon).
How to Tie the Albright Knot
The Albright knot is known for its ability to connect two lines of different sizes including braid to fluorocarbon.
In most tutorials, the Albright knot is taught using 10 wraps but I increased it to 14 in order to match the total of 14 wraps from the Alberto knot.
Here’s a video showing exactly how to tie the Albright knot:
How to Tie the Alberto Knot
The Alberto knot is becoming an extremely popular knot for connecting braided line to a fluorocarbon leader. Its popularity is due to this knot’s ability to be tied to pretty much any type of line with varying differences in diameters.
And as you’ll see below, the Alberto knot is very similar to the Albright knot given that its beginning and end are identical.
However, the line wraps in the middle are what make this knot unique. Its premise is that making 7 wraps out, and then 7 wraps back will create a continually squeezing system similar to a Chinese finger trap.
Here’s a video showing how to tie the Alberto knot:
Strength Test – Albright vs Alberto
To test the breaking strengths of these two knots, I tied each of them to a single strand of line and then applied steady pressure until the weaker of the two broke (and I did this a total of 5 times to have a decent sample of results).
Given that the similarities of these two knots, I was assuming that they would be fairly close and this test confirmed that assumption… here’s how it went.
- Albright knot pulled out @ 7.2 lbs of tension
- Albright knot broke @ 11.3 lbs of tension
- Albright knot broke @ 9.4 lbs of tension
- Alberto knot broke @ 15.6 lbs of tension
- Alberto knot broke @ 9.2 lbs of tension
In case you want to see how the test was performed, here’s a quick video showing the breaks.
Conclusion – Albright vs. Alberto
Given that these two knots are pretty much identical in terms of tying time and their knot size, the strength factor between these two knots should decide which one is best for braid to fluorocarbon.
And the Alberto knot proved to have the higher average breaking strength in this knot test.
ROUND 2
FG Knot vs. Alberto Knot
Since the FG knot was the winner in our previous braid to fluorocarbon leader knot contests, we now need to check to see if this very popular Alberto knot can unseat the reigning champ.
So I used the exact same test consisting of 5 bouts between these two knots tied on a single strand of line using the exact same spools for consistency.
Here’s how it went:
- Alberto knot broke @ 10.4 lbs
- Alberto knot broke @ 14.6 lbs
- Alberto knot broke @ 13.9 lbs
- Alberto knot broke @ 9.3 lbs
- Alberto knot broke @ 8.7 lbs
This video shows the breaks.
Conclusion
The unique line twists of the Alberto knot proved to increase the breaking strength of the traditional Albright knot when using a light braided line to connect to a heavier fluorocarbon leader.
However, the FG knot proved to have a higher breaking strength once again for this very important connection.
So my earlier recommendation of the FG knot still stands…
The FG knot has once again proven to be the strongest direct braid to fluoro connection while having the added bonus of being the slimmest of them all since the leader line never doubles over.
Although the FG knot takes slightly longer to tie, it has proven to be well over 30% stronger than the Alberto knot when used to connect 10 lb PowerPro braid to 30 lb Ande fluorocarbon so that added strength is well worth the added tying time.
Note: Different line brands/sizes could alter results, so I recommend testing these knots out to see which one is best for the lines that you prefer to use (just make sure to anchor the lines down well and wear glasses to protect your eyes from flying line parts).
If you have a knot that you’d like me to test out, please either leave a comment below or send us an email and we’ll be happy to check it out.
Go To Our Knot Testing Homepage [Full Knot Rankings]
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Hi liked your videos but I will like you to compare the fg with the double uni knot
The FG knot beat the double uni by roughly the same margin.
Modify Alberto? Another factor is knots coming apart. I have trouble with the braid coming loose and the knot fails. This is not due to the knot design. Have you tested the Alberto with several overhand knots of the braid tag end? I usually tie light braid to 8# flouro
I have not tried the alberto with any overhand knots on the braid’s tag. When testing the alberto, the traditional way of tying it always resulted in the line breaking so I’m not sure why you’re experiencing issues with the line pulling out… perhaps it’s due to the lines that you’re using. Which lines (brand and strength) are you using when you’ve had those issues with the alberto knot?
I switched to the Alberto on my heavy outfits because I couldn’t get the FG coils on the braid to bite into the heavy mono top shot. Using 65lbs Ande or heavier the knot would slide down the mono. The mainline and tag end of the braid on the Alberto lock the coils on the mono.
Interesting. I use that same Ande leader line and the thicker leader seems to make the FG knot easier to get the FG coils to dig into the outer layer of the mono. But what I’m using the heavier lines, I still am using a braid that’s weaker (and MUCH thinner) than the leader line… if using a 60 lb leader, I rarely go higher than 30 lbs for my braid mainline. What sized braid are you using when having issues with the 65 lb ande?
you might have to correct the text.. you list all 5 tests as ALBERTO KNOT no mention of the FG knot
The tests consisted of head-to-head matchups where both knots are tied on the same line which is then pulled until the weaker one broke… in the test where the Alberto knot was going agains the FG knot, the FG won 100% of the tests so it didn’t get shown in the lists that showed the strength at which the losing knot broke.
I personally use the Improved Alberto Knot when tying Fluorocarbon Leader to PE line (preferred over conventional braid). The “improved” Alberto Knot is nearly identical to the standard Alberto Knot except the last step in tying it is to wrap the tag end of the braid around the side of the Fluorocarbon loop 3 times before pulling the knot tight. I’ve experienced failures of the Alberto Knot but never the Improved Alberto Knot plus it flows through very small guides without any problems. Maybe I’ll have to try the FG Knot and compare the two.
Hi!
First of all, thank you for the informative content!
Could you please also compare the knot in the following YT Video (don’t know the name) with the Alberto knot. The Video is in German but the knot is showm realy detailed. The guy in the Video claims that the Knot didn’t fail him on fish until now. He is using verry fine line an catches big Lake Trout and Pike with that combo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lyRVhv5s4s – knot making starts at 2min14sec
Thanks in advance
I liked the Albright Knot for braid to monofilament connection because of the slim, neat, low profile of the knot and that it is easy to tie. However, I had my 15 lb. Trelene Monofilament line break at the knot with my Power-Pro 10 lb. Braid, not once but twice while casting in the same morning. Upon close inspection I saw that the Albright Knot was completely intact and when I cut the knot in two I found the monofilament still inside of the knot. In both cases the monofilament broke right at the point where it exited the knot. Any idea why? Have you heard of this before?
Are you reeling the knot up into your rod guides and then casting it out? If so, the friction from it hitting the guides is likely causing some damage to it.
Yes I am reeling the knot up into my rod guides. I prefer a long leader but I’ll shorten it now, thanks.
Love how everyone argues with you in the comments lol. But hey, that’s what debate is about. I currently tie the fg right now but used to tie a Bimini twist with a long loop then used the loop to tie an Alberto knot. Too long to tie on a boat but curious how it would compare to the fg.
I see you have already done this and I can’t delete my post. Looks like the FG knot won that one too.
I tested out the bimini twist with various popular knots against the FG knot, and the FG was the winner. The only combo that consistently beat the basic FG knot was using the FG knot with the doubled line from the Bimini:)
Here’s a link to the details from that experiment: https://www.saltstrong.com/articles/fg-knot-vs-bimini-twist-knot-strength-test/
have you compared the GT knot. I have seen where it is 100% breaking strength in other tests.
There are several versions of the GT knot out there… and all of them that I’ve tried do not compare to the FG knot. If anyone claims a knot is 100%, I automatically become skeptical because that most likely means they haven’t actually tested it.
Good information, Luke. Have you considered doing your testing with just the knot under test? It would save time not having to tie two knots for each test, one of which gets wasted. My son and I did this for a science fair project years ago and it worked well. We terminated the tag ends by tying simple overhand loops on the ends and wrapping the line multiple times around 1″ dowels with an exposed screw head on the dowel to hook the loop over. The line wrapped around the dowels never breaks first since the stress is spread out over a significant length of line.
I have always done two knots because it’s very tough to get an accurate reading from the scale, so having the two knots going head to head is the most accurate way to know which one is stronger that I have found so far.
If there’s a way to pull the precise breaking point when doing one knot at a time, I’m very interested in learning how so please let me know if there is a good way to pull that info.
That makes sense if you’re using a scale. You may want to consider upgrading to a digital force gauge like this one to test individual knots: https://www.amazon.com/Nextech-Digital-Display-Back-Lit-Enclosures/dp/B01F6S1OC8/ref=sr_1_6?keywords=nextech&qid=1584671078&s=industrial&sr=1-6. This manufacturer sells various models with different measurement ranges, but that one is probably a good choice at 44 pounds of force maximum. It records the peak force at the instant the knot breaks which is a really useful feature. You should choose the lowest range model that meets your needs because it will give you the most accuracy within that range.
If you want to upgrade even more, they offer an accessory stand that allows you to control the tension more carefully: https://www.amazon.com/Nextech-Digital-Display-Back-Lit-MTS1-DFS-SET/dp/B07BYW7LPD/ref=sr_1_21?keywords=nextech&qid=1584671317&s=industrial&sr=1-21&th=1.
Their website is https://nextechsales.com/collections/force-testing for more information. I’m sure there are other digital force gauge choices, but that appears to be a decent affordable option. Good luck, and thanks for all the great work!
How did the GT knot fare vs FG?
Supposedly the GT beat the FG, but the difference doesn’t seem to be enough to justify the added time it takes to tie the GT knot in my opinion.
Luke, why 30lb fluorocarbon for 10lb braid, you know 15lb – 20lb fluorocarbon will land you
a very big fish, just a thought.
The leader strength decision for me is based on the fish that I’m targeting. I go with 20 lb if I’m targeting redfish and seatrout because it has enough pulling strength and abrasion resistance to get the job done even for redfish over 40 inches. But when fishing waters with snook and tarpon (which I most always am), I bump the leader up to 30 lb because they both can rub through 20 lb leader even if they are just in the upper-20 inch range (and a 40+ inch of either species would undoubtedly break off if it didn’t get hooked perfectly).
Hi Luke, wee test I would like you to do (not use, but just to open your eyes).
Get a swivel (anyone will do) and get that 30lb fluorocarbon you have and
put tag through eye of swivel, go around line (above eye 5 times (only)
then get tag and go through small loop above eye of swivel creating a big loop,
go in through that loop 3 times, spit, pull up (gentle), spit and gently pull
knot down above eye of swivel, for fishing that knot will NEVER come undone.
What is the name of that knot? Seems as if it’s the improved clinch knot but with a couple extra twists at the end.
As for testing if the swivel adds strength or not for the line setups that we recommend for inshore saltwater anglers, I’m most concerned with finding the optimum knot to maximize the breaking strength of the braid because that’s going to be the weakest link in the connection since the mono/fluoro is at least 2 times the rated strength of the braid. Does the knot you described work for braid too?
I did my testing with the modified uni knot for braid (https://www.saltstrong.com/articles/modified-uni-knot-for-braid/), and the FG knot proved to do a better job at giving the braid a higher breaking point compared to the swivel.
Hi Luke strongest knot by a mile for braid to a swivel (only a swivel) for mono or fluoro leader
is take 6 inches of braid and bend it on itself 6 inches and hold tag end and main as if braid
is on a spool and about half an inch make a circle tie half a knot, then go back half and inch
make another half knot, then back half an inch make another half knot then lastly go back
half an inch make another half knot (4 in total) cut tag end leaving a few mill
and put a lighter to bind tag end. Put loop through eye of swivel and put over far end of swivel
and bring it back same side as start, attach trace/leader but for shore fishing that = 1oz lead
or you could kill someone, plugging for bass no bother but that’s it, great set up there ive mentioned
and trust me a swivel makes no diff from just a knot, my first choice for river spinning is a swivel
as I use small mepps spinners and gets it down quick, I seem to do well using it. Horses for courses.
Now Luke remember you can easily break 10lb braid by hand yourself (with two wooden spoons not fingers)
so don’t be to hard on yourself.
To answer the above question yes the 5/3 will also work with braid, you will not break both knots
but you are anyone can break 10lb braid, tip let the fish do the test.
I recommend all anglers to test their knots before using them… if just relying on a fish pull test, that opens the door to losing a fish of a lifetime to learn that a knot wasn’t as strong as it could have been when that lesson could have easily been learned on land in a controlled test.
And if the knot or line doesn’t break in a pull test, that just means that more tension needs to be applied or lighter lines should be used because there is no such thing as a knot/line that won’t break… the question is just at which tension load causes the failure.
Improved Albright knot.
Now that opened my eyes today, I wanted to use a 10lb fluorocarbon (leader) with a
20lb braid (main line) for those days the river is in normal state (not high black water)
12lb set up for that is great. I couldn’t believe (by accident/something I read) how the 10lb leader ended up
as strong as if it was tied to a swivel, blew me away, solid (I could not break it period with max pressure)
at the knot doing one small but amazing thing.
That’s .21mm braid and a .26mm fluorocarbon leader. (Knot) Super strong and I mean super strong.
“The amount of raps”, going up and going down. 5 raps up/3 raps down, pulled the hell out of it
and I just looked in shock, opened my eyes. Going thinner on leader = less raps as braid is just crushing
leader. Yes the leader is slightly thicker but 20lb braid is much much stronger and cuts like a knife through butter.
Knot for (what im fishing for) 100%.
Blew me away Luke on such thin light line one word “impressed”.
Yes, I have noticed that the good line to line knots result in a stronger connection compared to if a swivel was used in between them… which was totally opposite of what I had thought was true for 20+ years:)
Hmm not true, yet again it depends on who is tying knot/s to both ends of a swivel
and “size of swivel” (very important bit that bit “size”). Used knots for years on swivels,
boat/shore and river, including a 200lb skate, braid/swivel/mono trace. Never in
30 years of fishing have I had one knot come apart, I was taught well Luke, fished
along side world class anglers and have (myself) 17 places for 1st (overall).
Im very fussy in getting things right and we all are learning (that bit I still crave myself),
1st time though trying this very light set up for grilse/salmon (spinning).
One question I do not know, what is best a short or long leader (confused on this)
in your experience? Thanks Luke.
Small river not very wide say 40 feet to 30 feet.
The knot that is referred to as the “Alberto knot” is actually known as the “Improved Albright knot”
as in second vid, or a double Albright knot.
This is the knot I could not break (with my usual set up), choice between the two fg or above,
tied correctly, ide choose the “Improved Albright Knot” as its far quicker to tie.
It seems as if the names of the different variations of this Albright knot differs by region. Yes, the albright is surely absolutely quicker to tie compared to the FG knot.
In your tests Luke you say FG won @ 14.6lb but above you say @
4. Alberto knot broke @ 15.6 lbs of tension. (This is the knot I tie) wow.
Yes, the Alberto knot proved to have a higher breaking strength compared to the Albright knot in my test proving that it is a very good knot. But please know that the test also revealed that the FG knot beat the Alberto in all of the 5 break tests. And when I tested the breaking strength of the FG knot with those same lines, the breaking point was over 18 lbs (it does a better job at spreading the tension load on the braid which results in a higher breaking strength when pairing a lighter braid to a heavier mono/fluoro leader).
Hi Luke, the load is spread out on your whole length of leader when a fish
is on it acts like a shock absorber. Today I tied (last test) 10lb .26mm fluorocarbon
leader with 20lb .21mm braid and braid length was 10 foot long and leader was
10 foot long, I tied braid to a solid oak seat (weighs a ton) and put on a glove, I rapped
my hand around point of leader and (as if I was playing a good size fish) using improved Albright
knot, all I can say it would land me a 20lb salmon no bother, also letting it run.
Yes your tests on the fg knot are very impressive, but a 20lb fish will not break
my set up, most fish I catch are 5lb -8lb (grilse/salmon) all my double figure
fishing is now gone as placed shut. Were you live and fish ide say fish are very
big so much better set up needed, saying that it also depends who is tying
the knot being used, both are great knots and once tied correctly will not
come undone playing a fish, I did well over 12 tests at home and im more
than happy. Some thicker lines crush thin lines etc etc list is endless.
I say to anyone practise at home (not the bank) don’t blame the line if something
snaps are breaks, try another kind of knot, not all knots fit all fishing set ups.
Paul
Ahha just spotted something that caught my eye, in your vid “how to tie the Albright knot”,
Luke that is not how its tied, in vid its a single weave, its two weaves.
Proper way,
Take leader line double up as in vid (at start), pass braid up through (not down as in vid)
and start weaving braid 9 times (or whatever one chooses) near your thumb and finger
end (not at far end as in vid), then after you have done 9 weaves one way (keeping everything tight’ish)
go back down 5 times and gently (at this stage) pull leader so that loop is very small but also
just enough to put tag end of braid down though loop, wet and pull gently, job done.
So after you double over leader start weave near loop end and work away from you
then back down towards you, I say loop as when you start it does look like a loop
in your hands, in vid weave is started wrong end.
Also nobody uses a 4 inch leader so I don’t understand test above, you asked me “why 1 inch”,
simple I was (just for peace of mind) just testing knot, and I could not break it period with (my)
usual set up.
Only way to test any knot is with a fish on the end, best test of all, but if you can not break it
or it does with huge pressure that is still fine as a big fish one lets it run.
We call your Alberto knot were we live “the Albright knot Luke”.
Anyway whatever you call it lol the second vid (I call Albright knot and there are vids also saying this)
is all one needs or the fg, good as each other in my 30 years experience as an angler.
The reason why I did a 4-inch leader was for my safety (lessen the snap-back once the line breaks) and so that I can get both connections in the video as I break the knot to see what happened. My point in asking the question about the 1-inch rule was that I just don’t feel there is a need to limit the distance of line away from the knot to do a knot test because every millimeter of the line should have the same stretch regardless if it’s on a 4 ft length of line or a 1-inch length of line.
If the goal is to know exactly which knot is strongest for a specific connection with specific lines (which is the goal of my tests), I believe that these head-to-head pull tests will reveal the answer. And the break has to occur to know for sure which one is strongest because it’s just a guess otherwise.
4.Alberto knot broke @ 15.6 lbs of tension, now that is impressive.
Lastly, remember when a good fish is hooked one lets it run (never drag on full)
from the spool or fly reel, if one has done there own tests and one is more than happy
and one has landed big fish (like I have numerous double figure fish on 8lb fluorocarbon)
and saw the backing on many occasion (with no issues whatsoever) that’s all that matters.
Yes experience is key and trial and error takes years to master.
We all are learning, and that includes me.
Yes, a properly set drag should ensure that a fighting fish cannot break the line by its pulling strength alone. My personal reason for trying to find the strongest connection is to be able to pull fighting snook away from structure.
I did some research on the drag tension a while back, and it seems like the general consensus was that the drag should be set to just 20% to 30% of the weakest line in the line assembly… so my use of 10 lb braid and 30 lb leader should only have 2 to 3 lbs of drag at the reel: https://www.saltstrong.com/articles/proper-drag-tension-for-a-fishing-reel/
Yes, the best thing about fishing is that it is a continual quest for learning. It can never be mastered, and there are always new things to learn.
Left a reply below under “why 1 inch from the knot”.
Just did a test rovex tergo 20lb braid to 12lb fluorocarbon with fg knot
same result as Albright knot, I could not break it period.
Every knot (or the line) should eventually break as the tension load increases past its breaking point. When measuring which knot is stronger, I typically just tie two competing knots on the same line and then pull until the weakest point in the line assembly breaks… which has been at one of the knots 99% of the time.
Hi Luke, went salmon fishing this morning, no fish for any of us today water
was in huge flood yesterday, but I got snagged really bad, so no better time to put
Albright knot further through its true colours, I pulled and I pulled, it came free
and all I lost was few lead shots, knot and long leader fully intact.
I fly, spin and worm. I suppose what ever one has confidence in.
Just for the record my PB fish on the fly is an 18lb 8oz rainbow trout
caught on a size 22 grey duster (dry fly), 8lb fluorocarbon Airflo G3 (.21mm)
tied to a braided loop, I have over 100 double figure rainbow trout
and all caught on 8lb fluorocarbon. Tight lines.
You have to remember Luke a long leader acts as a shock absorber and the load
is spread out, yes every knot will break but and this is a big but, the test done
at the makers factory (some don’t not impressed) but old school most did
this was done on the leader itself and not at the knot, fluorocarbon in a knot test
stretches really bad, you need to be no more than 1 inch from knot half inch
even better to do proper test, and that’s one test at a time not two tests
done in the one go. My knot (Albright and fg) had same results I could not
break the knot, so last night I did another test but (like you) 4 inches away
from knot, god it stretched out then broke buddy, same fluorocarbon and braid.
30lb fluorocarbon does not break at 14lb that’s 16lb loss through a knot, jeez.
Anyway I don’t believe this is a true measure of a test due to fluorocarbon
being so stretchy, 10lb braid is super thin and could also be cutting the fluorocarbon
and weakening it hence breaking at 14lb.
Luke these comments are only in kind not to be taken any otherway buddy, I love
fishing and have 30 years experience, boat, shore and river.
Tying knots of any kind is what one has tested themselves and they believe
gives them the confidence which as we know takes years to do.
Can you help me understand why it’s important to be 1 inch away from the knot when testing it? My philosophy in these knot tests has been to simply find which one enables me to have the strongest overall connection between me and my lure. So I am ok with any stretching that takes place in the test because it’ll be taking place when using it too. And the philosophy behind putting two knots on the same strand of line is to enable me a way to measure which one provides the strongest connection. Unless there is some sort of fancy machine that measures the precise tension on the line when breaking a single knot by itself, I don’t understand how anyone can know which connection was actually stronger between two good knots like the FG and the Albright.
Please know that I am not taking any offense to your constructive feedback. I’m always looking to improve these knot experiments, so any and all suggestions are welcome.
Thank you firstly Luke. I agree about proper test, if you use one length of braid
and one small length of fluorocarbon (for each tests, ie fg knot v Albright)
it means you have a strong point to work from as any fluorocarbon stretches
a lot more than some think (knot only test).
Yes it did cross my mind today with this stretch in mind how can you
get a real tests done 1 inch from the fluorocarbon size hmm tricky one
but if you tie at home one with the fg knot and the other with the Albright knot
(separate braid and fluorocarbon not joined all as one) and go 1 inch
behind knot on the braid and one inch behind knot on the fluorocarbon
you will not break not 100%, so with this in mind ide love to know also
what it actually does break at Luke (all knots will break but some knots
are very very solid, trust me).
You will want to do a test after you try it, if you look at vid the fluorocarbon
is really stretch out your 3-4 inches away and that’s enough by a huge margin.
I could not break both knots period, would love to know myself as I couldn’t
break pulling with all my might.
May I suggest also with 30lb fluorocarbon you use min 20lb braid 10lb does seem
a bit of a weak link for 30lb, 30lb braid with a 20lb leader would be a great set
up for you reading above, just a thought Luke.
I’m sorry, but I still don’t understand why the line stretching would negatively impact a knot test to require a 1-inch distance. It sounds like you’re saying that the stretching is weakening the line. And I do understand how that would cause an issue for measuring the strength of the knot if the stretching weakened the line more than the knot did. But all 99% of my tests have resulted in the break occurring at (or in) the knot even with all of the line stretching off to the sides. Are you finding that your break tests have had breaks more than an inch away from your knots?
As for my 10 lb line choice, I do that so I can get maximized casting distance when fishing in areas that are mostly open water. And I’ll go up to 30 lb leader when fishing in areas with big snook or tarpon which have rough mouths that can rub right through 25 lb or less leader very quickly… so I have a strong business end to handle abrasion with a strong-enough mainline for casting distance. Here’s a test showing the impact of casting from going to a 20 lb braid to a 10 lb braid… the lighter line enables me to cover an extra football field length of water every ~20 casts: https://www.saltstrong.com/articles/casting-distance-experiment-10-vs-20-braid/
Why do you think its the fluorocarbon that’s breaking and not your braid at or
in the knot, 10lb braid is super thin. And yes I do believe after my testing
20lb braid to 12lb fluorocarbon (top quality) all my tests with 1 inch from the knot
with the Albright knot and fg knot I could not break it period and im very strong
upper body. All knots tested like your vid 4 inches away from the knot ALL tests
failed and broke, with huge line stretch, like an elastic band, that included
fg and Albright not, all company’s will tell you Luke gentle pressure
when tying knots, my tests were max tests.
My other point is Luke your fluorocarbon is 30lb, saying in the tests the fg knot
broke at 14lb is not great buddy. I believe yes stretching the fluorocarbon
your fluorocarbon lost a huge amount of breaking strength, you can see it
quite clearly in your vids, and in all my tests same.
Now on the other side of the coin I did same tests 1 inch from both sides of the
knot same set up (that didn’t break period on fg and Albright knot test after test)
20lb braid .21mm and 12lb fluorocarbon on different types of knot
ie loop to loop, double uni knot etc, they all broke and that was
1 inch from knot as mentioned but fg and Albright 100% did not,
yes they will break with more pressure than me but wow I am very
happy indeed. Did all knots with much thicker line they all were solid
but that’s not our set up.
Just to add in my salmon club rivers (im in two clubs) they are small
rivers not very wide but miles long so yes I can understand your
set up is distance also.
The failure point in all of my tests was the braid (not the fluoro) because the braid is the weaker of the two lines given that it’s just a 10 lb rating vs. the 30 lb leader. And the breaking point was in the knot because knots will pretty much always create a weak point given that it contorts the lines.
In my opinion, the 14 lb breaking point in my testing was actually pretty impressive given that the key line in the connection was only rated at 10 lbs… so it was 40% higher than the stated strength of the weaker line. Comparing the breaking point tension to the 30 lb line does not seem to be fair because it definitely not going to be the weak point… the goal of my experiment was to find out which knot did the best job at protecting the braid which is always the weak point in my connections because I have to beef up the leader to hold up to fish with rough mouths and/or sharp teeth.
It appears as if your experiments showed that both the FG knot and the Albright knot are very good knots for connecting braid to leader lines, and I totally agree with that conclusion. I still don’t understand why the holding point needs to be within 1 inch of the knot, but that’s ok. Our overall conclusions seem to be on the same track, so that’s what counts.
Gotcha Luke, indeed I thought so as 10lb braid is very thin indeed so
yes 14lb is superb, double checked test on 20lb braid (.21mm)
to 10lb leader (.26mm) and leader line broke just behind knot,
only the leader broke (with a lot of pressure), then I retied and
left myself 4 foot of leader to pull (not max or hard) but as if
a fish was fighting and wow it acted like a shock absorber and
didn’t break so really happy, Albright knot for me and I changed
only one thing I cut my leader length down from 12 foot to 4 foot
and kept knot outside tip ring. 12lb fluorocarbon main set up
with 20lb braid .21mm.
Our salmon rivers are not very wide (small rivers) but long so I think
with a mepp 2 or 3 in not spate conditions should be fine, I caught
two grilse and a nice trout on longer leader with loop to loop set up
but on testing knots don’t feel confident to chance it, Albright really
ticked all the boxes.
Thanks for replies and wishing you and your friends tight lines.
Paul.
Luke just to add on each test including fg knot on your vids you can clearly see
the 30lb fluorocarbon leader stretching then breaking.
I too did a test today with straight 30lb fluorocarbon (straight piece)
jee wiz it stretched and snapped like a twig (no braid attached just fluorocarbon.
30lb fluorocarbon should not break at 14lb using any knot, I believe you need to be
closer to knot, that’s why it broke you can see clearly it stretching out.
I got two wooden spoons and wrapped the braid till I got one inch from knot
on one spoon and one inch from knot on the 12lb fluorocarbon and pulled
100% with every once of my strength (im very strong upper body) it was super strong
and made me smile, repeated twice (3 times in total) same result.
Whatever works for whatever set up one uses and has confidence in use it.
Did the Albright knot test with 20lb Rovex Tergo (.21mm) braid and 12lb (.285mm) Varivas Hrd top
fluorocarbon (not 30lb braid and 10lb as stated above) and out of 3 tests 1 inch
to the knot pulling with all my might (I do weights and am very fit) it didn’t even flinch
one bit, there is a huge difference between 10lb and 12lb fluorocarbon and
I use this set up for salmon fishing, 100% in 30 years of fishing I recommend this knot
when tied correctly and tested with different breaking strains, Albright knot 20lb braid
to 12lb fluorocarbon for fishing and letting a big fish run never will break at knot, thinner
fluorocarbon I don’t use and would not go 30lb braid to 10lb fluorocarbon in a test.
Outstanding knot, thicker lines and thinner lines one not for all is rubbish.
Thicker lines crush thinner lines as does braid to fluorocarbon, get it right
as I did the Albright knot is bullet proof with NO break at the knot.
Yes, the Albright knot is a very strong knot, and it’s a great choice particularly when connecting a lighter mono/fluoro to a stronger braid. The test we performed was with a lighter braid to a stronger leader (10 lb braid to a 30 lb leader), and the FG knot proved to be the stronger option for those lines because it does an extremely good job at spreading the tension load of the braid… the FG knot is great at protecting the braid, but it’s not very good at protecting the fluoro/mono so I would definitely recommend the Albright over the FG knot for a 20 lb braid to a 10 lb fluorocarbon.
When you were testing the Albright knot, how many times did it break away from the knot vs. break at/in the knot?
Hi Luke, good question and very correct as at the knot and away from the knot are very different indeed.
Away from the knot one is stretching the fluorocarbon but 1 inch from the knot on both sides of the braid
and leader the test is knot strength.
The test I did was at the knot as letting a good fish run on spool this I needed to know
was up to the job, so I did two tests 1. My normal salmon set up on my salmon club river
which is Rovex Tergo braid @ .21mm (20lb) and Varivas Hard Top 12lb fluorocarbon
using the Albright knot, (after trying other knots and it breaking at the knot).
Three out of three tests using the above set up jee wiz she was strong, even my wife
looked on as I pulled one inch from the braid to knot and one inch from fluorocarbon
leader to knot and blew me away how strong it was, 100% not a chance of breaking.
Then I did same test but using 10lb same make of leader, it broke with not as much
pressure as above but it broke, learned a lot through test, 12lb and 10lb of quality
leader are huge and not one not fits all the same knot.
If using a thicker leader (used this knot for 30 yrs shore fishing), tie a half knot on leader
spit and pull tight then get your mainline (not through the half not as it will crush it) and go behind
leader half knot and go around leader 7 times, then make a loop and go back in 4 times, spit
then pull up, then slide knot down behind leader half knot and pull tight, trim tag ends.
That knot is as stronger than the fg knot and will never break, I broke the tip of a rod
when caught in huge weed 20 years ago, knot surely tested, but that’s thicker leader line
to thinner mono line (not braid), some knots break at the knot on lighter leaders as the
thicker (or any braid) is crushing it as it tightens.
Can u please test the “springer knot” vs palamor n SD jam knot
Please test relix knit strength
Great job!
Have you ever done a strenght test between Alberto and Tony Pena knot?
I have not tested those two together. My assumption is that they would be extremely close in strength since the only difference is the stopper. I’d personally go with the Alberto because it is thinner and I never had any issues of the braid slipping off of the turned over leader when testing it or using it out on the water.
Hi Luke. I just joined Salt Strong and am getting into your videos. Nice stuff. Always something to learn. I’ve been using the FG knot to connect floro leaders to my braid with great success. No issues.
Currently I’m setting up a 12wt fly combo with 65lb braid backing for big tarpon. I’ve considered tying my fly line to the braid with the FG knot rather than an Alberto. But wonder if the braid will dig into the fly line in a similar way to Braid to floro.
Any thoughts ?
Thanks
Mike
I have not yet tried the FG knot to connect braid to fly line. My guess is that it will not work as good as it does with mono/fluoro. I’ll dig up some fly line to test it out sometime soon.
Luke have you done any tests in the modified albright knot?
I have always finished off my braid side of alberto and FG knots with UV knot sense to protect the end as reeled in the guides and the distal (heavy mono) side for protecting the end going out. Have you seen any issues with that?
I do not like to use any sort of glue on my knots for 2 reasons: 1) I don’t want to have to wait for it to dry to start fishing, and 2) there is often more risk than reward when glue gets involved because many types of glue will crack when under pressure leaving sharp edges of glue that can end up damaging the line as the knot constricts under pressure.
Note: I have no idea if the UV knot sense is a hard-bodied material that is prone to cracking or not, so that may not be an issue in this case.
Thank you , Very Interesting
I have had lots of problems with FG knot slipping, especially in heavier weights. Example, 50# braid to 65# flouro (seaguar), catch a big skipjack no problem on a top popper, 4-5 minutes to bring him in with rod bent over. Two casts later, FG knot slips. Someone showed me an addition. You tie is same as shown here, but the double half hitch just braid, double half hitch just flour, then double half hitch just both (I do a couple extra after snipping end of fluoro as Luke showed too. Haven’t had any slip since. I’ll admit that, in smaller strength test (20# or 30#), I also add in a single half hitch of fluoro onto the braid after doing the above sets of doubles using the braid and then add a few more doubles using the braid for good measure. Makes the knot SLIGHTLY bigger but completely eliminates slippage on the tougher fluoro when the braid has difficulty biting in well. Would love to hear if others try this and what they think.
Just to be more clear, here it is again with some additional verbiage and no autocorrect errors!
You tie it same as shown here, but then, using the braid, double half hitch just braid, double half hitch just fluoro, then double half hitch both (I do a couple extra after snipping end of fluoro as Luke showed too. Haven’t had any slip since. I’ll admit that, in smaller strength test (20# or 30#), I also add in a single half hitch of fluoro onto the braid after doing the above sets of doubles using the braid and then add a few more doubles using the braid for good measure. Haven’t tried adding in this last step in heavier strength for worry of knot size but will go there if have any slippages even with the above modification.
Hey John, the issue of the FG knot slipping you described most likely is due to the first coil of the knot (closest to the lure) hitting your rod guides during a cast. Given that you’re using a braid that is fairly thick relative to the leader, there is a risk of that first coil hitting the rod guides with enough force to loosen up that first coil… and if that happens, the entire knot will slide off.
The easiest fix is to simply not cast the FG knot through the rod guides (that’s what I do). Otherwise, I’ve heard of some people who put glue on it to protect that first coil from the impact.
Assuming that is the issue, there is no amount of added hitch knots or any other knot at the back end that will make a difference (those hitches are simply to make sure that the FG coils that provide the strength don’t unravel from the back-side)
Thank you that’s very helpful! What you describe makes good sense. Love the fg knot but hate losing my lure right at wrong moment. Do you know what type of glue others have used? I think there are some from the fly fishing world that might work? I will try using shorter leader, just always seems like a bit more to get the braid further away from the lure could never hurt!!
I have tried to tie FG about 3 times and it was always pulled off mono leader with almost no tension at all. I tightened it with all force I have, but without possitive result. Everything was done exactly like in the video. Maybe the reason is braid, spiderwire ultimate braid, which is extremely smooth. On the other side, it was impossible to break alberto knot with the same 70lb braid and 60 lb mono leader.
It sounds like the issue you’re having with the FG knot is due to the thickness of the braid relative to the leader… the FG knot is specifically designed for protecting a weaker braid when connected to a stronger leader, so the line diameter of the braid needs to be smaller relative to the leader for the coils to be able to dig in the needed grooves to lock the knot into place.
I’ve seen others and have myself used the “blood knot”… I use it quite a bit tying heavier braided line to a lighter liter (mostly floro) if I’m in a hurry and don’t want to take the time to tie the FG. I haven’t seen any reviews on your site regarding this knot….? Any recommendations on the blood knot?
I have done some testing on the blood knot, and it seems to be best for mono to mono connections when the line diameters are close to the same. For braid to mono/fluoro connections, the FG has proven to be considerably stronger.
Thank you!
On your “Albright” knot, which is exactly how wes tie it and use it, only since I was 5yo (43 yes ago) and since my Pops was a kid.. (+70yrs ago), we’ve all know it as the “Weaver’s Knot or The Loom Knot”!
However, the ONLY difference is that we wet the knot and then pull it “SNUG”, just SNUG! We are also talking about catching 38″+ Bull Reds, 30 -90# Drum, Huge Tarpon, Snapper, Gator Gar, 3-1/2 to 5 1/2ft Shark.. etc.. So by leaving the knots “JUST SNUG”, It acts like a bit of a SPRING, if you will, as it allows a BIGGER FISH, HEAVIER STRIKE to get to the end of the line and that little 1/16″ of spring left in there gives you that VERY LAST “Umph” of reaction time to keep that fish from breaking your line, and gives you time to save your catch.
The Albright/Weaver’s/Loom knot is certainly a great knot that is capable of catching very big and strong fish. Please give this FG knot a try and test out the relative breaking strengths… it has proven to have a significantly higher breaking point and I believe that you will be surprised like I was after seeing its strength firsthand.
A properly set drag will ensure that whichever knot is being used can catch big fish… the big difference comes when having to yank a fish(or snagged lure) out of structure where its all about standing up to the tension load (FG has a 20%+ advantage for all of the lines I’ve tested it out with so far).
a comparison between fg knot vs tony peña knot
Hi Luke
I really appreciate the videos and reports and all the work that goes into them – really gives the rest of us a good base to try and find what will work best in the situations we face.
I fish a whole host of spots with the the same gear (all for largemouth bass) and don’t have the time to change my main lines spooled onto my reels – and so I spool varying strengths of (generally quite heavy) braid onto my different reels and just use leaders. My biggest challenge has been trying to get my heavy cover rods which are spooled with 60lb braid to be useable in open water situations where the water is crystal clear I.e I need to have 6/8lbs flouro tied to my lure. I’ve resigned myself to probably having to tie to a thicker flouro/mono and then tying in the thin stuff (unless you think there is something else I could try?) but in your opinion, what is the smallest mono/flouro you think I could get away with and which of the knots would be best suited?
If you’re wanting to connect a strong braid to a lighter leader, then do not use any of these knots because they are designed to protect the braid from breaking assuming that the leader is stronger than the main line.
Instead, use the 6 turn surgeon knot which does a great job at protecting a weaker leader line.
I find it odd to use 10 pound braid with a 30 pound leader. Braid is so thin I don’t understand why in most situations you wouldn’t use heavier braid if you feel the need for a 30 pound leader. I feel that fg not wouldn’t work with more common braid to leader combo’s such as 15 pound braid to 6 or 8 lb flouro. Or 60 pound braid to 50 lb flouro. But I haven’t tried it. I feel like an easy to tie knot is most important so you tie it well and often. I switch my leader knot every 200 or so casts anyway.
This knot contest was made for inshore saltwater anglers who most often use light braid for maximized casting distance with stronger leader to withstand the sharp/rough mouths of our target species (snook, seatrout, redfish, tarpon, flounder, etc.).
Yes, this FG knot would not be suited for a 15 lb braid to an 8 lb fluoro because it’s design is specifically to protect a braided line from breaking when tied to a stronger leader. For that connection, I’d recommend a 6 Turn Surgeon’s knot because it does a great job at protecting both lines.
Note: Since braid has a much higher actual breaking strength over its listed strength compared to fluoro, I highly recommend going lighter on your braid because you’ll get longer casts and better feel during your retrieve (less wind/water drag) without losing any overall line strength… weakest link will still be the fluoro knot.
For example, when targeting trout and redfish, which often require a minimum of 20 lb fluoro, I’ll use a rod with 10 lb braid. And when I get stuck on the bottom and have to break off, the break almost always occurs at the loop knot at the end of my fluoro since it’s breaking strength is lower than the lighter braid.
Dead on accurate , very smart guy .
I have surf fished with nothing but 10 pound braid for close to 20 years and always use either 20 or 30 pound flouro for leaders , FG knot is perfect for this although i haven’t had any issues before i found out about it .
The overwhelming majority of anglers fish with much much much heavier braid than necessary , i have whipped fish 40 + pounds and didn’t have to play them for long periods of time either . Light braid (If using good connection knots) has a much higher braking strength that 25 pound mono .
People always use the excuse of abrasion resistance to have an excuse not to use it , i remember being cut off one time in over 20 years fishing the Oyster encrusted beaches of N.C and S.C .
Skilled anglers have no issues but if not so skilled it probably is best to use heavier line , your rod/reel won’t perform nearly as well as every increase in diameter of the line even if small has a negative impact on your rod performance.
What do you think of tying a half hitch or tie with the braid tag end to finish off the alberto?
In my testing of the Alberto, it never once pulled out (always broke inside the knot) so tying half hitches at the very end probably won’t add any strength to the knot. That being said, they won’t take away any strength so doing them won’t do any harm.
Luke…this fairly new FG knot is pretty cool and look forward to trying it out. Thank you for sharing it and the testing. I have been running the modified Albright(Alberto) for several years now. It’s been my experience with Fluoro that the terminal knot will break before a properly tied connector. While using a 20/6 braid and a 6-10# Fluoro leader(smallmouth), I can only remember the connector breaking(on a hang up) a few times before the terminal double San Diego. Having also snapped a few leaders on hook set, I have see the leader snap just below the Albright but never pull loose or actually fail.
I would love to see you perform this same testing with smaller diameter leader. Just to see if the FG would be a good option for lighter spinning applications. I would predict that a little longer wrap might be needed to spread the load on the smaller line.
Also, on our Alberto’s, we do a 10/10 wrap instead of a 7/7. Not sure if this would change things but it might. Last thing would be to have a littler bigger sample, because the wide gap breaking points would lean to a little variation in tying proficiency.
Luke,
I fish 3-4 times per week in Pine Island Sound and have been tying and using the Alberto Knot to join 15 lb braid to 20 and 25 lb flourocarbon for the past 3 years. I have had great success with this knot, but will have to examine the alternatives, given these test results.
I just joined Salt Strong, and I love the Salt Strong Manifesto, and am learning a great deal from your program/ tips to take my inshore game up a notch. Thanks for a great focus on light tackle with artificials for inshore species, Mark
Red Phillips Knot for braid to fluoro should be tested. Especially handy knot when using heavy fluoro leaders. And as Ronald mentioned below the figure 8 loop knot; have been using this one for many years.
Hey Capt. Bob, thanks for sharing your knot tips. I’ll be sure to give the Red Phillips a try soon… I just looked it up and it looks very promising (similar to a double uni but much easier to tie). I’ll be testing it with 10 wraps of the braid side unless you specify a different count.
Luke, I have really enjoyed ( and learned a lot from) your knot tests. I have been using the “tarpon figure 8 loop knot” for attaching leaders to flies. I wonder how well it would compete against other loop knots….? It is easy to tie but the tag end does stick out a bit thus catching weeds if fishing in a salad.
Hey Ronald, thanks for submitting the new knot idea. I just checked out that figure 8 loop knot and my first impression is that it’ll be a bit stronger than the kreh loop knot and probably even the Rapala loop knot too since it doubles up on overhand knot at the beginning (that is typically the point where the Kreh and Rapala give way so the added support should help).
I’ll test it out soon… just wanted to say a quick thanks for the great suggestion. Fish On!
I watched the video on the Albright Special Knot and I like to tie knots, but it seemed to me that the knot was not cinched down as far as I go – and that might account for your wide variation in test results. Just my observation.
Hey Ken, thanks for making time to leave a comment. Yes, I’m sure that there is some variation in results due to tying/cinching methods… and another big factor is different line sizes/brands. My recommendation is to give the FG knot a try using the tension method (http://v2.saltstrong.com/articles/fg-knot) to see which connection is the strongest for the lines you’re using.
I enjoy watching your “how to” videos and knot comparison tests. I have a suggestion for another test. In a nail knot tying video I watched on YouTube, one connection they recommended was using two overlapping, three turn nail knots to connect tippet to leader, or to join two lines. I wonder how these would compare in knot strength to the traditional blood knot? If they are strong enough, I would consider using nail knots when building tapered salt water leaders for bonefish or Permit. Thanks, ETB
Hey Thatcher, thanks for the suggestion for the nail knot. I’ll add it to my list of knots to test out and I’ll report the findings in a future post.