The Best Fishing Knots Of All Time [Ranked Strongest To Weakest]
By: Luke Simonds on May 13, 2018
Found In:
Fishing Knots • Fishing Tips
It’s fishing knot time!
Do you want to know something that might shock you about fishing knots?
After testing hundreds of fishing knots over the past couple of years, I’ve learned one very important lesson…
The “100% fishing knot” is a myth.
Why?
Physics.
Yes, simple physics is the reason why. Pretty much all knots will create a weak point on the line given that it creates a point on the line where a max load is hitting it from more than just one direction.
And although there are some instances where the main line (or leader) will break before the knot fails, there is no single knot that can always do that with all types of lines.
So step #1 in using the strongest possible knots for your fishing needs is to understand that there is no such thing as a “100% knot”…
And if you hear someone say that their knot is 100% without any exclusions, then they likely have never tested it out in a controlled test with multiple lines, so I be wary of their recommendation.
Here’s the hard truth…
Your favorite fishing knot is weak, and so is mine…
This is simply due to the fact the contorting line and creating hard turns that get put under tension will always create a weak point in the line making it the weakest point in the system (assuming that the main line is not compromised).
Note: This weak point is almost always at the first hard turn in the top section of the knot coming from the main line, so it most often leaves a clean break which looks like the mainline simply snapped when an angler examines the line after a break-off.
Now that we’re past the first hurdle (acceptance), step #2 is to actually test our knots to make sure that you don’t lose the fish of a lifetime due using a knot that isn’t the absolute best for each connection in your line system.
To help save you time in testing knots, I’ll be displaying results from my continued testing on this page.
Best of all, the individual fishing knots will be ranked based on their strength & performance results for the following knot connection categories:
The results of these knot strength tests might surprise you! 
Do You Know The STRONGEST Fishing Knot For Every Situation?Click here to download the FREE “Ultimate Fishing Knot PDF Guide” (only takes a few seconds)
Knot Category Groupings
Feel free to use the links below to skip down to the knot connection that you’re most interested in. Otherwise, you can simply scroll down to see all of the knots.
And if you don’t see your favorite knot listed, just leave a comment on the bottom of this post (click here) and I’ll add it to my list of fishing knots to evaluate.
So let’s get started…
Definition of Bad, Good, & Great Fishing Knots
Before going on the knot strength results, it is essential that we first all understand the different categories of knots in terms of their strength:
- Bad Knot: unravels/slips when under heavy tension
- Good Knot: does not unravel or slip (it breaks before unraveling)
- Great Knot: does not unravel/slip and has a higher breaking point than “Good knots”
How To Determine A Bad Knot
A bad knot is very easy to see because it leaves behind the telltale sign of trouble… the curly tag end.
Yes, the curly tag end that you may have seen after a break-off means that the knot used was either a bad knot, or there was a poor job in tying a good/great knot.
So if you ever see the curly end after a break-off, do not tie the same knot the same way because it’ll likely happen again.
How To Determine A Good Knot vs. A Great Knot
The difference between a Good knot and a Great knot requires the act of intentionally breaking them under a controlled test to see how much tension they can hold before the break occurs.
This is the missing link that most anglers overlook because it requires time and effort.
I am the perfect example of this because I was even fishing tournaments with money and pride at stake and never even bothered to actually test my personal knots.
And when I finally did test my knots, I was shocked at the results… the very first test I did revealed that I was getting 30% less strength than I otherwise would have had I been simply using a different knot for my line to leader connection (replacing the Double-Uni knot with the FG knot… both shown below).
So I highly recommend testing out your knots. And if you’d like a shortcut, this page shows the results from my testing below to help guide you to the best knots from my many tests done so far.
And I’ll continually update this “best fishing knot” post as more and more knots are tested so that you can have the latest and greatest data.
So if you want to save time while maximizing your line strength, this post is for you.
What Are The Best Fishing Knots?
There are many different types of lines which in many cases have completely different textures, sizes, and friction coefficients.
So we’ll be evaluating knots based on the type of line used within these general line categories:
- Braid
- Monofilament/Fluorocarbon
- Wire (Coming soon)
- Flyline (Coming soon)
And to truly evaluate a fishing knot, it is essential to focus each test on a specific type of connection because a knot that is very good for line-to-line connections is often not good at all for line-to-lure connections (and visa-Aversa).
So we’ll break out the rankings shown below into the following connections types for each line category:
- Line-to-Line Knots
- Line-to-Hook/Lure Knots [Snug]
- Line-to-Hook/Lure Knots [Loop]
The results of these knot strength tests might surprise you! Do You Know The STRONGEST Fishing Knot For Every Situation?Click here to download the FREE “Ultimate Fishing Knot PDF Guide” (only takes a few seconds)
Best Fishing Knots for Braided Line
Braided line has quickly become an extremely popular choice for inshore anglers because it allows for longer casts and better feel of lures given that its strength to diameter ratio is so much higher than mono/fluoro lines.
Plus, it has very little stretch which enables the angler to feel even the lightest of taps on the other end of the line.
But braid requires much for friction within the knot compared to monofilament so it almost always requires a different knot than the traditional knots used on mono.
Best Braid to Leader Knots
To kick things off, we’ll start with the most important of all connections for most saltwater anglers who use a lighter main line to connect to a stronger leader.
This setup is becoming very common because it allows for the overall system to have optimal casting performance (due to the lighter line in the reel) while having a stronger leader line at the business end to hold up to the sharp teeth and/or rough mouths of the target species.
Fluorocarbon is the most commonly used monofilament leader these days since it’s known for being less visible in the water while also being more resistant to abrasions, so this analysis is focused on connecting a braided line to a fluorocarbon leader.
Here are the top 5 ranking knots based on the knot tests I’ve done so far:
- PR Bobbin Knot [requires tools]
- Pro: This is an extremely strong knot when tied correctly
- Con: Requires tools to tie and takes a long time (extremely tough to do while on the water)
- FG Knot*
- Pro: Thinnest knot I’ve ever seen while also having the highest breaking strength.
- Con: Requires a strong cinch before cutting the tags so that it fully locks into place.
- Note: Only use this knot if tying a braided line to a stronger mono/fluoro leader.
- 6 Turn Surgeon’s Knot
- Pro: Very quick to tie while having a shocking strong breaking point and can be tied using lines of any size
- Con: Bulkier and slightly weaker than the FG knot
- Doubled-Over Double Uni Knot
- Pro: Easy knot to tie and it can be used for all connections
- Con: Up to 30% weaker than the FG knot in my tests
- Crazy Alberto Knot
- Pro: Nice low profile knot with a strong breaking point
- Con: Up to 30% weaker than the FG knot in my tests
- Improved Albright
- Pro: Nice low profile knot with a strong breaking point
- Con: Weaker than the FG knot and the Crazy Alberto
Click here to see the first contest I hosted for this connection.
Note: If your favorite knot isn’t included, leave a comment below and I’ll test it out and add it to the list.
Best Doubled Braid-to-Leader Knots
Many anglers like to double the braid by forming a loop at the end of the braid and then tying a line-to-line knot to connect the doubled braid to the leader.
In many instances, this does increase the overall line strength for anglers who are using a lighter braid relative to the leader.
However, the FG knot tied on a single line has proven to outperform the doubled knot connections in most of my testing. The only combination that consistently beats the single line FG knot is the use of the FG knot to connect a doubled line formed by the Bimini Twist to the leader.
Line Doubling Knots [Braid]
- Bimini Twist
- Pro: Extremely strong doubling knot
- Con: It often requires more twists (30+) with braid so that it won’t slip
- Spider Hitch
- Pro: Faster to tie than the Bimini Twist
- Con: Not as strong as the Bimini Twist
- Surgeon Loop (6-turn)
- Pro: Extremely fast to tie
- Con: Not quite as strong as the Bimini Twist
Doubled Line To Leader Knots [Braid to Fluoro]
- FG Knot
- Pro: Thinnest knot I’ve ever seen while also having the highest breaking strength.
- Con: Requires a very strong cinch before cutting the tags so that it fully locks into place.
- Note: Only use this knot if tying a braided line to a stronger mono/fluoro leader.
- No-Name Knot (aka- Bristol Knot)
- Pro: Quick and easy knot to tie
- Con: Not as strong as the FG knot
- Yucatan Knot
- Pro: Quick and easy to tie (very similar to Bristol knot)
- Con: Not as strong as the FG knot
Note: If your favorite knot isn’t included, leave a comment below and I’ll test it out and add it to the list.
Best Braid-to-Swivel/Lure/Hook Knots
This next category is focused for anglers who use braided line and like to use swivels.
But it could also be useful if you like to use connect your braided line directly to your terminal tackle (although I do not recommend tying directly to your lure or hook using braid because fish can see it so much better than mono/fluoro… instead, use a ~20 to 30 inch leader in between your braid and lure/hook).
- Braid Uni Knot
- Pro: Great knot that is very strong and easy to tie
- Con: Although an easy knot to tie, some are faster
- San Diego Jam Knot
- Pro: Strong knot that is easy and quick to tie
- Con: Not quite as strong as the Modified Uni Knot
- Palomar Knot
- Pro: Very fast and easy to tie
- Con: Not as strong with braid as it is with mono
- Orvis Knot
- Pro: Quick and easy to tie
- Con: Not as strong with braid as it is with mono
- Improved Cinch Knot
- Pro: Quick and easy to tie
- Con: This knot doesn’t perform well with braid (prone to slippage)
- Clinch Knot
- Pro: Quick and easy to tie
- Con: This knot doesn’t perform well with braid (prone to slippage)
Click here to see results from a contest I hosted for this connection.
Note: If your favorite knot isn’t included, leave a comment below and I’ll test it out and add it to the list.
Best Fishing Knots for Monofilament/Fluorocarbon Line
Monofilament line is used by almost all anglers in some capacity, so I’ve done many tests with knots using mono line.
For tests that I’ve done for my personal use, I focused on Fluorocarbon line, which is a specific type of mono.
Many anglers use Fluorocarbon for their leader material since it’s known to be stronger the less visible than traditional monofilament line.
Here’s what I’ve tested so far:
Best Mono-to-Mono Knots
Here are the top mono-to-mono knots that I have tested:
- 3 Turn Surgeon’s Knot*
- Pro: Extremely easy and fast knot to tie with very strong holding strength
- Con: Need to tie this before tying on a lure or hook
- SS Knot
- Pro: Versatile knot connection with an impressive breaking strength
- Con: Not quite as fast or strong as the Surgeon’s knot
- Double Uni Knot
- Pro: Easy knot to tie and it can be used for all connections
- Con: Not as fast or strong as the Surgeon’s knot
- Albright Special
- Pro: Easy knot to tie that looks very nice once completed
- Con: Not as fast or strong as the Surgeon’s knot
- Blood Knot
- Pro: Easy to tie with lines of similar size
- Con: Not as effective with lines of different diameters
Click here to see results from a contest I hosted for this connection.
Note: If your favorite knot isn’t included, leave a comment below and I’ll test it out and add it to the list.
Best Line-to-Hook Knots [Mono/Fluoro]
Now that we covered the very important line-to-line connection, let’s dig in to the best fishing knots for connecting our hooks and lures to the end of the line.
For this category, we’ll split it up into two sections to cover the two core different types of connections:
- Loop Knot – Leaves a loop so that the lure/hook has more range of motion in the water (less strength compared to snug)
- Snug Knot – Line hugs around hook/lure eye forming a strong connection (less range of motion)
Note: I’ve specifically focused on fluorocarbon line since it’s the most popular for saltwater anglers… if you want me to test these with standard mono, just let me know and I’ll add it to this post.
Best Loop Knot to Lure/Hook
When fishing with artificial lures, using a loop knot is an advantage because it allows the lure to have more motion in the water which most often leads to more strikes.
But the downside is that loop knots are not as strong as snug knots, so that needs to be taken into account when selecting your leader line size and when setting drag.
Here are my favorites:
- Rapala Loop Knot
- Pro: The strongest loop knot I’ve tested so far
- Con: Takes a bit longer to tie than many others and leaves a tag end facing up which can snag weeds/debris
- Non-Slip Loop Knot (aka. Kreh Loop)*
- Pro: Very quick and easy to tie and has a tag end that points down towards the lure (more weedless)
- Con: Just a tad weaker than the Rapalla knot
- Figure 8 Loop Knot
- Pro: Tested to be very strong (very close to Rapalla Loop Knot
- Con: Takes longer to tie than the Non-Slip Loop knot and does not have a weedless tag end
- Perfection Loop Knot
- Pro: Strong loop knot that is quick to tie
- Con: Tougher to tie since this knot requires the hook/lure to pass through a loop
- Canoe Man Loop Knot
- Pro: Extremely fast loop knot to tie
- Con: Strength test was great with traditional mono, but it didn’t perform nearly as well with fluorocarbon
Click here to see the first contest I did with this important connection.
Note: If your favorite knot isn’t included, leave a comment below and I’ll test it out and add it to the list.
Best “Snug” Knot to Lure/Hook
When going for maximum strength when having action in the water is not as important, then the snug knot is the way to go because a good snug knot will be a significant amount stronger than a good loop knot.
Here’s my ranking of the Snug knots that I’ve tested so far:
- Palomar Knot
- Pro: Very strong knot that is easy to tie when using bare hooks
- Con: Can become cumbersome when using larger lures because it requires the lure pass through a loop
- Uni Knot
- Pro: Good knot that is fairly quick to tie and can be used for almost any connection
- Con: Not quite as strong as the Palomar knot
- Orvis Knot*
- Pro: Very quick and easy knot to tie that is very strong
- Con: Not quite as strong as the Palomar knot
- Clinch Knot
- Pro: Quick and easy knot to tie
- Con: Not as fast and easy as the Orvis Knot nor as strong as the Palomar Knot
- Double Davy Knot
- Pro: Very quick and easy to tie (just 1 more twist vs. the Davie Knot)
- Con: Not quite as strong as the Orvis knot which is just as easy to tie
- Davy Knot
- Pro: Very quick and easy to tie
- Con: Not quite as strong as the Orvis knot which is just as easy to tie
Click here to see the first contest I did with this important connection.
Note: If your favorite knot isn’t included, leave a comment below and I’ll test it out and add it to the list.
More test data getting added soon, so be sure to bookmark this page!
Conclusion
Of the many factors that determine if you land the fish of a lifetime that you hook, the one that we have 100% control over is the quality of the knots that we use.
So it’s essential for us to select the absolute best fishing knot for each connection to get the most overall line strength.
You have certainly heard the saying, “A chain is only as strong as its weakest link…” Well, a rod, reel, and an angler are only as strong as the knot between them and the fish.
Make it count.
There isn’t (and never will be) one fishing knot that can do everything with all line types and connection needs, so make sure to be mindful of the knot options you have for each connection need you have.
This post will continually grow over time as knot suggestions come in, so leave a comment below letting us know of any other knots you’d like us to add to this analysis.
Note: The * symbols next to the knots listed above are the ones that I personally use for each of the respective connections.
The tests have been done using 10 to 20 lb PowerPro tied to 20 to 30 lb Ande and Seaguar fluorocarbon.
The results of these knot strength tests might surprise you! Do You Know The STRONGEST Fishing Knot For Every Situation?Click here to download the FREE “Ultimate Fishing Knot PDF Guide” (only takes a few seconds)
Related Posts:
1. How To Tie The Perfect Leader Assembly For Inshore Fishing
2. What Is The Proper Drag Tension To Use For A Fishing Reel?
3. How To Get A Hooked Fish Out Of Structure Without Breaking Off
P.S. – If you think your angler friends or fishing networks would enjoy seeing this, please Tag them or Share this with them. You Rock! Pa-POW!
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Seagaur knot
Hi Luke, Interesting thread. I got a little bleary eyed reading all the comments and responses. One knot I did not see mentioned was the Slim Beauty knot. I have been using this knot for braid to flouro leader and found it to be reliable and small profile so it does not pick up grass etc. It may be known by a another name, which case, I am not familiar with it. It is easy to tie and makes a nice connection.
Forget it. Use the FG
I just found this tool called the Tie-Fast Knot Tool, I ties a Nail Knot; really easy for my 8 year old to learn. Would you be able to compare this knot to some of the others like the Palomar and Trilene Knots? You can also use the Nail Knot to attach line to line.
I would very much like to see the Trilene knot tested. Thank you for all the information.
Thanks for these knots, Im going to put some of these vids on my phone if that’s ok.
Wow this is great information thanks for sharing this. Have you tested the Miller knot? It was created by Joe Miller
Hi have you tired the knotless knot I use it a lot and it has never failed on me. I never tested it. It’s one of the easiest knot to tie thanks
Is that any different than the snell knot?
Hey will you test the worlds fair knot? For snug terminal tackle?
I haven’t tested that one yet, but it’s undoubtedly not going to be stronger than the uni knot or the palomar because it doesn’t do a very good job at spreading the tension load evenly. It’s core benefit is likely in its speed of tying… very quick and easy.
Hi guys…I need advice. Im using as SL mono 0.33, and its connected to main line 0.28. Which knot is the thinnest one?Cos of easier gliding through the glides for long cast.
tnx a lot.
What type of mainline are you using?
Berkley trilene transoptic 0.28 is main….and shock is same model just 0.33…yr advice?
With a mono to mono connection, the most streamlined option that I know of is the Blood Knot.
Please could you repeat the test series with small diameter flourocarbon lines? (ie 4-6lb)?
Particularly regarding terminal tackle knots…
Thanks!
I would like to see a strength and durability comparison between the FG knot and the Modified FG knot .
I didn’t see the J-knot for braid to mono/flouro. I tested against the blood knot I have been using and the J knot won 3 out of 3 for me. Reminds you of a 4turn surgeons knot but you make the loop and pass the braid tag and entire leader thru the loop alternating top and then around bottom. Hard to explain.
I don’t see that you have a braid to braid knot?
Here’s a link to the best braid to braid knot that I’ve been able to find so far: https://www.saltstrong.com/articles/strongest-braid-to-braid-fishing-knot/
I fish the Sea of Cortez for billfish. Here, marlin bigger than 250# are rare; we generally catch more stripes and sails. My biggest is a 650# black but we catch so few big fish that we do not gear up for fish that big day to day. I am a “knot freak” and have spent years of testing the breaking strength of knots both on the water and on a jig which I built for that purpose. My issue is that, although I read every “knot test” I can find, those tests never test the braid-to-leader connection we use. First, I use 80# braid for mainline–300 yds. on most reels. After using 50# and 65#, I settled on 80# because the breaking strength of braid is much more inconsistent than mono. This gives me a bit more margin for error when those rare big fish come along and, as you will see below, the braid rarely gets in the water anyway and only then when there’s a lot of line out and line friction through the water adds to the needed increase in breaking strength. I then splice on a 50# mono top shot about 150 yds. long–the actual length varies by reel depending on how much the reel will hold on top of the braid. Since the splice knot will usually be the weakest point, I want to avoid the splice altogether when possible and this combination means that the splice does not come off the reel most of the time. But when it does with a bigger fish, I have 300 yds. of braid mainline as backup. This also results in a stretchy mono section which serves as a “shock” leader which helps prevent hook pulls. I know other fishermen who use this set up also, or variations thereof, and do not think it is all that unusual. But all the splice knot tests which I have read involve lighter braid to heavier leader which is the reverse of what we use. I have evolved over the years from Albrights, Improved Albrights, Bristols and Improved Bristols–now I’m using a 13 wrap FG knot finished with a Rizzuto. I would love to see a knot test for such a setup using the IGFA testing machine which, I’m sure, would be more accurate than my home-made rig which incorporates a spring scale. Thanks.
It sounds like you may want to give the PR Bobbin knot a try (w.saltstrong.com/articles/pr-bobbin-knot/)… it takes longer to tie than the FG knot, but I’ve heard that it can handle thicker braids better than the FG knot. And it also has tested to be stronger than the FG knot for the lighter lines that I’ve tested it on (but I haven’t personally tried it on the thicker lines that you referenced). https://ww
Saw somthing you guys could produce and sell it was a coffee cup with nautical knots we need one with fishing knots
I have used the Red Phillips knot now for several years for both light and heavy braided lines joined to fluorocarbon leaders. I do modify the original knot by finishing it with 4 alternating half hitches in the braided line. I don’t think you have ever tested this knot.
Hay Luke, I’m still waiting for a response to my original post. Your credibility as an expert is on display.
Hey Doug, my apologies for missing your earlier post. You are correct in that I have not yet tested the Red Phillips knot. It is on my list of knots to check out, but I just haven’t had time to do that one yet. Given how similar it is to a Uni, my assumption is that its strength would be similar to the Uni.
But make no mistake, I am absolutely not an expert in knots… just a passionate angler like you who is interested in finding which knots are best for each connection.
trilene knot for whatever
What is your method for a double drop loop knot? Can’t find it
I use the surgeon knot for dropper rigs. Here’s a video showing how to do it: https://www.saltstrong.com/kids-fishing/rigs/bottom/dropper-rig/
Check out the stren knot for braid-to-mono/fluoro.
It appears as if that is just a line to line connection using the uni knot on one side, and the improved clinch knot on the other. Given that the uni knot is a more efficient (aka – stronger) knot than the clinch knot, I would recommend sticking with the double uni over the sten knot.
I found your discussion of knots to be quite insufficient, in that you left out the “speed to tie”, “ease to tie”, and “applicable to all situations” factors in evaluating overall desirability.
The great Vic Dunaway taught me the elegance of the Unit Knot forty years ago, and since that day, I have NEVER had a Uni Knot fail even one time, in forty years of hard fishing. It is truly a ‘KNOT FOR EVERY SITUATION”, including Loop Knot situations (the only drawback being that it has to be re-tied after a fish, because it will tighten when more pressure is put on the line.) It will not cut mono, and is great for a short strand tied horizontally to a main line as a “stopper” for corks, beads, and swivels. It is easy and fast to tie, even in rolling seas, and equal to or better than every other knot, all things considered, in approaching 100% line strength, whether for mono, fluoro, or braid. It is especially good for attaching braid main line to fluorocarbon leaders when the braid is doubled and the leader is not, joined by UNI to UNI. Your analysis also overlooked one very, very important consideration….who manufactured the line? Every single manufacturer’s lines have different “coefficients of friction”, which is absolutely critical in determining the best knot! Some knots will slip for one line but not another, and this is especially true of braid!l Once again, I have not found any make of line that does not work well with the Uni Knot, and that cannot be said of all other knots.
For the average fisherman or the world record seeker, give me the Uni Knot over all others.
Hey Park, I totally agree that strength alone should not be the only factor to consider. All of the factors you mentioned like Speed, Ease, and Applicability absolutely should be considered too.
That’s a big reason why I listed pros and cons for each knot, and why I put an asterisk by the ones that I’ve found work best for me (mostly not the strongest option).
Another very important thing for us anglers to consider for knot selection is in the identification of the weakest link/connection because that’s technically the only one that needs to have the strongest possible knot.
For example, I most often use 10 lb braid for my mainline and a minimum of 20lb leader to connect to my lures when targeting redfish and seatrout. So the only knot that I really care about maximizing the strength of is the line-to-line connection (FG Knot). For leader to lure knot, I use the Non-Slip Loop knot even though it’s not as strong as the uni loop or the rapala loop knots… the core factor that matters is that it’s still not the weak point because it’s tied on a line that is 2x+ stronger than the mainline.
A suggestion the Mahseer Knot. Mahseer Knot
Mahseer knot
This knot orginated in India by fishermen trying to catch the Mahseer. This fish is reowned as the ultimate freshwater fish. It is said to be the hardest pound for pound fighting species on the planet. For this reason the knot that takes its name is one of the strongest knot around and if tied right will not let you when you need it.
Thanks for posting the knot recommendation. I’ll be sure to give it a shot. At first glance, it appears to essentially be the Clinch knot (https://www.saltstrong.com/articles/clinch-knot/) with a couple added motions… go through the hook eye an extra time, and then slide tag through both loops at the end (both of which likely give it added strength).
Luke – A suggestion – Have a separate section on Site called KNOTS- put your favorite knots (By now we all know what they are) in Alpha order . It will make it easier when we want to brush up on knot tying. Thanks
Thanks for the helpful suggestion Richard! I’ll add it to our list of updates to make is these fishing knot tutorials.
Have you ever heard of a TN knot? It appears to be used to tie a leader to your terminal tackle. Just wondering how this faired in your testing
I have not yet tried the TN knot. Will be sure to check it out next chance I get. Thanks for the suggestion.
Will the FG and PR work with braid to mono leader when going from heavier braid 50-65 lb to lighter mono 20-30 lbs. The articles I’ve read about these knots seem to indicate these knots only work when going from lighter braid to heavier mono?
The FG knot should not be used for those lines (it’s specifically for a stronger leader relative to the braid. But the PR knot should work for those lines.
I’d personally use the double uni or the 6 turn surgeon knot because they are much easier to tie, and they do a good job at protecting both lines.
The improved clich (triline knot)(double clinch) is stronger than your 3rd rated clinch knot
Thanks for the knot suggestion… the Trilene knot is on my list of knots to test out (I did not realize that it is the same thing as the “Improved Clinch”). Test results will be coming soon.
The improved Clinch not and the Trilene knot are not the same thing. The improved Clinch takes a standard Clinch and and after running the tag end through the hole between the strands and the hook, it is then passed through the loop it just created. This does not give the knot any added break strength, it only gives a little added insurance against slippage, which, if tied correctly, is not a factor in the first place. The Trilene knot, on the other hand, takes a standard Clinch and adds a second wrap around the item being tied to. This adds significant strength as this is a high stress area on the line. While I am a big Trilene fan, I also use Ande and a few other brands. I have found the Trilene knot to be my go to knot for mono to terminal tackle. Correct tying is paramount, and that means using the right number of turns. That varies with brand and also diameter. You need to perform your own tests on the lines you like to use. Thinner line generally requires more turns. I am due to retest some things, a good winter afternoon activity, but generally a 15-20# leader to swivel will use 5 turns, 12# more like 6, 8-10# 7 turns, an 6# and under needing 8 turns…YMMV…
Luke,
Have you done any testing with a braid to fluorocarbon connections that are the same size? (Equal pound test or the braid been heavier than the leader).
If so what would be the best knots for that? Sometimes in yellowtail fishing you need to have a leader smaller than the mainline that you’re fishing when the fish get weary.
Thanks,
Chad
San Diego Jam is a bulkier knot, but when I have used it in conjunction with the Palomar, the Palomar always breaks first. I would like to see it included in your tests. Thanks.
The biggest thing I’ve learned is to pick a couple of good knots and then learn to tie them well. I’ve been using the Canoeman Loop knot for years now and have never had a failure because it’s so easy to tie. Conversely, I had failures with the Albright braid-to-leader knot until I learned how to consistently tie it. When I decided to start using the FG knot, I also had some failures until I learned to do the same, which is to take my time early on and get it right. Then repeat this until it becomes easier and quicker. Having a properly set drag I think most all of these knots will land fish consistently. Thanks for the information!
Maybe you will test is future the following:
– braid to hook : palomar with double passes through first knot
– fluoro to hook: clinch knot with doubled line, uni with doubled line, your improved uni, the knot that shaw grigsby uses.
Thanks for making time to leave the suggestions.
I did the palomar knot test that you described a while back… here’s the post: https://www.saltstrong.com/articles/strongest-palomar-knot/
So when you are saying that improved uni is better than palomar it is actually better than doubled palomar
Yes. For the braid tests, the improved uni has seemed to outperform all of the others (including the doubled palomar) so far. Here’s a link to it: https://www.saltstrong.com/articles/modified-uni-knot-for-braid/
When using spoons or jig/plastics, I get more strikes with the Kreh loop knot than with any of the snugged up knots like the clinch. However, I find that, because the eye of the lure is moving against the leader that has passed through it, it chafes that line after so many casts. Whenever I have lost a lure due to a snag (or even a fish!), I have seen that the knot held. What parted was the single strand of line through the eye of the lure. This does not happen with a knot that is snugged tight against the lure’s eye. I plan to experiment with doubling the leader before tying the loop knot. This would have two strands of line, rather than one, through the eye. I’m wondering if you have tried this and what the results may have been.
I have tried the double lined loops before, but none of them seemed to outperform the standard non-slip loop knot for all around effectiveness. I have yet to see the loop break as you described… what line were you using when you had that happen?
Luke, I’ve had it happen with 20 lb. Yuzuri fleuro and Berkley Vanish, also 20 lb.
Thanks for letting me know. I’ll be sure to keep an eye out for this issue.
Where does the blood knot fit into your test? Used to like e blood knot, but now the FG knot. People I fish with like the albright, and Alberto, but your test proves the FG to be superior. Test the FG vs the blood knot please.
I do not like the blood knot for connecting braid to a mono/fluoro leader (which is the only connection that the FG knot allows), so the FG knot is a big winner for that comparison. As for blood knot for mono to mono connections, I believe it’s a good knot, but my preference is the double uni.
North Shore of Massachusetts…
Uni knoutes brought me fish in excess of 40lbs
Nice work Jeff!
Luke, thank you for your work & presentations on knots. When I learned to fly fish in Colorado 50 some odd years ago I was taught the needle knot for connecting the leader to the fly line. This is similar to a nail knot but the leader exits the core of the fly line rather than coming off the outside edge of the fly line. This is an advantage when pulling the leader & fly line through the rod guides.
Also, I was taught to tie a fly onto the leader (or tippet) using a knot for which I don’t know the name. You pass the leader through the eye of the hook and tie a loose overhand slip knot in the tag end. You reach through the loop of the slip knot and pull out one side of the overhand knot to form a loop. This loop is then passed over the fly and the knot is cinched down on the head of the fly with the standing part of the leader going through the eye of the hook. We were fishing for pan sized trout using fairly light gear, probably #10 or #12 flies on 4 or 6 lb test leaders and involved a lot of finesse and sneaking up on the trout.
Both of these knots worked for us, but I wonder how they would fare in your tests.
Thanks for the knot suggestions George! I’ll make sure to give these a try.
Any easy versions of a drop loop? I have problems with tactile feel in my fingers and setup all of my leaders at home. The drop loop is a major challenge for me.
Here is an easy version of the dropper loop: https://youtu.be/zDYQ-oIDbUo
I have tried every knot listed here trying to join braid to a mono leader. All of them slip. I can’t pull with my teeth and both hands so a few are more difficult than others. I can cinch down using both hands and pull as tight as possible. Then if I pull on the mono and braid after trimming the mono has pulled out in 100% of these. Closest to staying was a double double uni knot.
I have been experimenting with:
Power Pro 20,25, 40 and 65 lb
KastKing braid – 20, 25, 40 and 65lb
KastKing 20, 30, 40, 80lb mono
Zebco 20, 25, 40 lb mono
Berkley 20lb Fluorocarbon
I improvised a bit. For lack of a defined name, I will call this the JR knot.
1: tie a spyder hitch loop on the braid
2: tie a spyder hitch loop on the mono.
3: Using the mono, I feed it through the loop in the braid and tie an improvised Bristol knot, but, before completely cinching up the knot
4: Feed the mono leader (if still on the spool make sure mono loop is large enough) through the mono loop (that is now sticking out of the knot back towards the direction of the mono)
5: cinch everything down tight.
Note: There is no mono tag and the braid tag has already been trimmed from the spyder hitch loop.
Using this combination, I can pull as hard as I want and haven’t pulled the mono out yet. The line will break on one side or the other before the knot fails.
Love you videos,
Jim
Thanks Jim! Sounds like the spider hitch and bristol combination is a solid choice.
Note: When testing any of the knots, make sure to pull them tight with a lot of pressure before cutting off any of the tag ends because there is often some slippage that takes place before a knot locks into place (especially when using braid).
I really like what you’ve done here. Ive been using the “tie-fast” tool that ties the nail knot for the last several years. I fish salmon in Lake Michigan so these knots have been tested. I have not found a weakness due to the knot. Have you tested the nail knot?
I have not done any testing on the nail knot yet. The application that I’ve heard it used for most is to connect fly line to its backing. What application(s) do you use it for?
“there is no such thing as a 100% knot…” Funny that people who don’t know how to tie a 100% knot will always say this! They’ll write arcticles and preach this all over the web. A 100% fishing knot actually has to be +100% in order to ensure the line breaks before the knot does. The problem with people who don’t know how to tie a +100% knot is that they don’t really understand what it takes to do it. They only “think” they understand the “physics” but really are ignorant of what actually needs to happen with the knot. Keep it up! You’re one of the many blind people trying to lead!
Hey Anon, please let us know what knot your finding to be 100% (mainline breaks every time before the knot) along with the lines that you are using. I have had knots that outlasted the line, but I have yet to find a knot that will outlast the line consistently every time.
It’s a long reply and I don’t know if all will be displayed… but here goes.
It’s good that you’ve seen knots perform the way they did. What you missed is “why” the line broke, and you also failed to “recognize” that the knot you tied actually turned into a +100% knot. With the beliefs you have, you probably didn’t research it further, or maybe blamed it on bad line, damaged line, etc. This is something many people do when they see line break and in fact deniers will often tell you that if you see the line break before the knot, it’s bad line. Funny, I almost joined a forum just to rebutt a poster who was claiming all kinds of knowledge and experience about how 100% knots don’t exist. Unfortunately, that thread or site is gone now, and even Waybackmachine (Internet archive) doesn’t have it… but I did save the page because it irritated me so much. By the end of the thread, the denier/actor actually convinced the OP. Pitiful! Going by what the denier says, I own 30 spools of bad line, and I seem to keep purchasing more!
I will not disclose the name of the knot(s) that have the capability. What I will tell you is that there is a “family” of knots that will consistantly perform at +100%. You must discover which knot family I’m referring to yourself… AND, discover “how” to tie them. A palomar knot for example does not belong to a family of knots… it is a single knot, so you can eliminate single knots, like Palomar’s, Miller knots, etc, from your research. You can also eliminate any knot that requires going through the eyelet two or more times. The family of knots are common knots… it’s only “how” you tie them that will turn them into +100% knots.
As for the line. Nowadays, mono lines are manufactured “hard” in terms of “tensile psi” so the manufacture can claim good abrasion resistance. As such, it is tougher to tie +100% knots with modern lines. Tensile psi is what makes mono do what it does best and that is compression and expansion. If the tensile psi is too high, you will never tie a +100% knot because you cannot get the correct compression and expansion the knot requires to make it impenetrable to pressure (this is a big hint to the “why” of +100% knots). Take P-line for instance. While it’s a hard line, you can still tie +100% knots, but you won’t do it all the time. P-line has a tensile psi of 79000 – 152000. It does fall in the range that’ll work, so you can be successful, but it depends on the manufacture lot of the line that you happen to have in hand. Too hard, and it’ll fail more often than not, too soft and the line will cut instead of breaking. Now take the “old” Berkley Big Game line which has a tensile psi of 105000 on average, you can always tie a +100% knot in this line because the tensile psi is bascially perfect for what needs to be accomplished. However, the problem is that Berkley changed the formula with it’s new BBG line (the line available in stores now) and it’s tensile psi appears to be lower, making it too soft to consistantly attain +100% knots… it’ll often cut before breaking. There may also be other factors besides the psi, like chemical makeup and such. Of course, you can do it with many lines, but like P-line, you can’t depend on it. Right now the only place you can purchase the “old” BBG is on ebay. Also, as far as I know, and I’ve tested it, you cannot tie +100% knots in fluorocarbon line. Fluorocarbon is not extruded like mono, so it doesn’t have the same elasticity for compression and expansion. It’s too hard… besides, it can crack down the seam. Of course, the tests I did on fluoro were using the same knots I tested on mono. Perhaps there are knots that could turn flouro in +100%, but I highly doubt it.
I’ve tied +100% knots in 3 – 40lb test line. Note that not all line of the same vendor/type will achieve +100% breaking through it’s different pound test ratings. For instance, 6lb test Maxima green can achieve +100% consistently while it’s bigger 20lb brother is very inconsistent. Same goes for Berkley Big Game (new), Suffix, P-Line, Stren, Jinkai, Ande… all inconsistent. But, the old BBG is awesome for attaining +100% knots… it’s my go to line for the type fishing I do, which is “whipping” in Hawaii. One of the best lines (also unavailable now) is Kingline. I don’t know the psi rating but I’ve tied +100% in 20 and 40lb test mono. Kingline has a smaller diameter per pound test than other lines… 40lb test is approx the diameter of 27lb test in other lines. Also note that Japan lines used to be labeled at the line breaking strength, so 40lb test is actually the breaking strength and not the strength as how US manufactured spools are labeled. Still, “steathwise” with it being clear (light blue) and smaller in diameter, Kingline is (was) a very good line. It breaks at about 38+lbs from my tests. Amazingly, I still have some 20 and 40lb test that I use today.
By the way, I use Sufix 832 braid line in 20 and 30lb test as my main line so I also had to develop a braid knot that could withstand the pressure of breaking the mono it’s tied to. No use having a +100% mono knot if your braid knot will fail before that. I developed a modified PR knot tied to ensure it can handle the pressure of a “slow pull” break. This means that when you pull on the line slowly, the braid knot will not fail before the mono fails, thus giving you all possible line strength of the mono leader. The braid knot will also not cut the mono line… this is just as important as the braid knot not breaking or cutting itself. If you fish where I fish (over reefs) with lures that cost $10 to $25 a shot, you would want to attempt to pull the hook out of the coral, or bend the hook to recover the lure. You would be pulling on the line slowly to accomplish this… thus the braid knot needs to pass the slow pull pressure requirements of full mono strength. There is no such thing as a +100% braid knot due to braid characteristics, but it’s not required if you can tie a knot that “acts” like it’s +100%.
Then again, while +100% knots are very nice, they aren’t really needed to catch fish. Fish are weaker than people believe… but then that’s another subject, isn’t it?
Lastly, people will wonder and query why I don’t disclose the knots. The reason is simple… because there are just too many distractors that simply won’t believe it no matter what. It’s easier to believe there are no 100% knots rather than try to do research themselves. You yourself have seen line break. Was it a fluke? Was/is there something to it? Didn’t you see it more than once to make you wonder? Just reading your article makes me believe you’re an intelligent person. I also believe that if you research and think about what needs to happen, and what knot you saw it happen with, you will discover the secret. Recognizing an occurrance of what the world says is impossible is very easy to miss. It’s almost like it’s easier to believe what you read rather than “really looking” into what just happened.
Thanks very much for making time to describe the details in what you have tested. I have done a lot of tests so totally understand how much time it takes so your insight is very much appreciated.
I totally agree with you on the fact that 100% knots are not essential for catching big fish because a properly set drag should make sure that the line never breaks when fighting a fish due to direct pulling strength (unless of course the angler has to apply more force to keep a fish out of structure).
But stronger knots will absolutely help make sure that more snagged lures/hooks can get recovered by anglers by powering past/through snag or straightening hooks, and this is extremely important because it will help keep our waterways cleaner.
I did see the line break outside of knots in several tests. And I absolutely tried to repeat it but none of them happened twice with the same knot so I had to conclude that it was due to a blemish on the line.
You originally said that I was “one of the many blind people trying to lead!”. But I did not take offense to that statement because you probably assumed that I was like the poster in that forum that was not open to opinions from others. Unlike that person, I am totally aware that some of the claims in this post very well may not be perfect. So I’m always open to suggestions and will quickly adjust this article whenever something I claimed proves to be incorrect.
We have open arms to your knot suggestions, and your helpful feedback will be here for many years to come for many to learn from.
I hope you decide to share whatever knot or family of knots you’ve found to achieve 100% status because it sounds as if it will help keep our waterways cleaner if we can help others learn from your findings.
I’m sure there are other people who have discovered how to tie +100% mono knots, and like me, are not disclosing it for various reasons. It is, after all, the “Holy Grail” of fishing. A few years ago, I had planned to release a document (or webpage) about my findings, and although I started it, I never completed it. I also thought about speaking to line manufactures to see if they would invest in experimentation to develop line that would enable +100% knots to be easily tied in their line. Can you imagine the competitive ramifications and profitability if one manufacture had this knowledge? Perhaps one day… but until I finally decide what path to follow, I have to apologize that I can’t disclose the knot(s).
My research actually started in 2011 and lasted approx 1.5 years. During that time I tied approx 12,000 knots, both mono and braid. I tied practically every mono and braid knot known at the time, to include variations of many knots. But to be honest, I didn’t tie knots I knew had no chance of attaining +100% because at some point during my testing I came to realize what needed to be accomplished so I was readily able to throw knots out just by looking at them. To date I’ve probably tied well over 16,000 knots to both reassert and verify my setup through the years, and sometimes, just for the fun of breaking mono line! Lol, I do waste a ton of line just playing!
In Oct 2015, I came back from vacation and realized I had forgotten how to tie my braid knot. So I sat down one weekend and tied approx 1000 knots. I kept all braid knots to later dissect and investigate how they were doing, and after counting them, I had approx 500 braid knots… which meant I had tied 500 +100% mono knots to break against just to relearn/verify my braid knot again. Directly after that round of knots, I created a document so I would never forget it again!
In additional testing I also tied 4 full setups and hung them untouched for over a year behind a door in my room to see what “time” would do to the knots. For sure, I thought at least the mono knot would fail, but to my surprise, all setups still broke the mono between the knots. I also tested full setups soaked in water overnight (+8 hrs) to see what effect that would have. While the mono did get softer and stretched more than when dry, the mono still broke between the knots. The hanging setups were done to try to determine if I could tie spare mono leaders and keep them in my tackle bag so I wouldn’t have to tie them at the beach. As it is, I have some spares sitting in my bag that are over 2 years old. I haven’t tested any of them yet, but perhaps I will one day. The water tests were done to determine how the knots would fare being soaked while fishing.
That’s the kind of testing I did. Unfortunately, for the last 2.5 years, I haven’t done any fishing at all because I’m a full-time caregiver for my Mom. But, after reading your article, I started wasting line again!
Per my testing there is no braid knot besides a modified PR knot that can break mono. Even with modifications and variations, I haven’t been able to stop any other braid knot from slipping, cutting itself, cutting the mono, or simply breaking. All other braid knots fail when applying “breaking” force, and they normally fail well below the strength of the mono. A note here regarding the lines I use… I use 25lb test BBG mono (old version) with 20lb test Sufix 832 braid (Low-vis Green), and 30lb test BBG mono (old version) with 30lb test Sufix 832 braid (Lo-vis Green). I also use 40lb Kingline mono with 30lb test Sufix 832 braid (Lo-vis Green). If fishing light tackle, I use 6lb test Maxima Green main line to swivel, and then 3lb test Hope (Japanese mono) leader to hook. If you want to learn more on breaking strengths of some mono’s and braids, visit Paulus’ website here… http://www.paulusjustfishing.com/4linetesting.htm
My take on braid… Braid line always moves inside the knot under pressure. The higher the pressure, the more movement inside the knot, and the deeper that movement attempts to go through the knot. This is unavoidable because braid has no means of gripping itself or any line it’s tied to. Also, the smaller or shorter the knot, the weaker the knot is, and the sooner it’ll fail. To tie the strongest braid knot possible, you need to ensure that although the braid is moving inside, it can maintain strength “while moving”. My own modified PR knot is designed for the braid to internally move without damaging the mono it’s tied to or to itself. If it doesn’t move enough, it would damage the braid. If it moved too much, it would cut the mono. I’ve seen that happen many, many times during development of my knot.
Here’s a test you can do if you’re able to tie PR knots. I identify this method of tying as a “close wrap” PR knot. Go here and watch this video…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbhvZi0fiM4
Then, tie the knot as closely as you can to match the knot. Use 20 or 30lb braid, and 20 or 30lb mono… match the mono and braid tests. After you tie the knot, try to break the setup (pull the braid and mono in opposite directions) and see what breaks. What will break is the braid knot, and not only will it break, but it’ll break within approx .5 inch from the top of the knot (reel side). The reason it breaks where it does is because pressure cannot move through the full length of the knot… because the “under” windings are too close. Full pressure (and heat) builds up only at the top section of the knot and causes the braid itself to fail.
After that test, go and watch this video…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u99KSrXdpu4
This PR knot is way too loose to be of any good. The “under” wrappings are way too few, too loose, and too far between. If you tie a PR knot in this manner, it will almost certainly cut the mono at the “turnaround”. The “turnaround” is the point where the braid starts overwrapping back up the line.
Sorry for getting off-topic, but braid knots that can act like +100% are integral to +100% mono rigs.
I completely agree that creating a line that enables true 100% knot connections could be quite lucrative. But I don’t see much value in the knot itself unless you’re planning to sell some sort of gadget that is required to tie the knot.
Overall, the biggest problem you and/or the line companies face is that a vast majority of anglers think that their Palomar knots, Miller knots, etc. are “100%” knots regardless of the line used. So they have absolutely zero motivation to learn any other knots or invest in any other fishing lines.
While doing the many knot strength tests that I’ve done so far, I have watched countless videos where the teacher is proclaiming the knot they are showing is a 100% knot without any mention of the line required to achieve the true 100% status.
And this doesn’t just happen on videos on the 10th page of search results with 5 views… many of them have hundreds of thousands or even up in the millions of view.
You and I both know that 99% of anglers do not conduct detailed experiments on the true strength of their knots, so there are millions who surely blindly believe that their Palomar knot they learned online is getting them a 100% connection for all mono, braid, and fluoro lines.
Seeing the countless blind “100% knot” claims online without any exclusions (braid, fluoro, etc.) is what caused me to write this post.
And your feedback has actually made me more confident that the opening “100% fishing knot is a myth” claim in this post is accurate because you seem to have also proved that no knot by itself generates a true 100% strength… the actual strength is dependent on the specific line it’s being tied with.
In my opinion, any informed “100% knot” claim should be followed by the specific lines it works on just like you did.
And every time the generalized “100% knot” claim is attached to a knot without any exclusions, the “holy grail” opportunity you referenced gets diminished.
Please let me know if my reasoning is off-base.
I understand what you mean. However, the power of marketing, word of mouth, articles, and of course Youtube, would convince even those who already believe their knots are 100%. Just one knot challenge would fly across the world in record time, and follow up videos won’t be far behind… so people will look into it, no matter what. Fishing is vast and such advances like braid vs mono with it being thinner, lighter, and stronger per diameter made a big change in the market, as did changes in reels becoming smaller with improved drags to take advantage of braid line. And of course there’s the fluoro phenom, although I don’t use it. I truly believe people would invest in new lines if they see and experience something real and easily obtainable. Even I would… and I believe you would too! Right now my motivation for using +100% setups has nothing at all to do with catching fish, so this is where the separation lies for me.
Agreed, there are many knots claiming 100% in videos, etc… I’ve seen them too. However, because I can recognize what’s needed for the setup to accomplish +100%, I tend to discount the knots themselves in those claims, regardless of the line used. People will always believe what they want, and some will believe what they’re told, and they’ll do it without testing or experimentation, which I find sad. Anyone who thinks a Palomar knot can become +100% is misinformed. The knot simply doesn’t have the mechanism to do so… it slips until it cuts.
Your reasoning is not off-base, per-se… just a bit narrow, perhaps. I don’t know what kind of experimentation you did in attempting to achieve 100% knots before you gave up and concluded they don’t exist. From my findings, the line used is very important, too hard or too soft and they fail… within range, they work. Using a knot(s) with line that falls within range and achieving +100% means the knot(s) used is capable of tying to +100%. There’s no denying it. To say such a knot doesn’t exist and is a myth is wrong or I wouldn’t be able to do it. Now if your article was more specific to line type, manufacture, etc as data to your conclusion, then it would hold more credence. Of course, not knowing +100% knots exist in the first place, you wouldn’t go so far as to test different lines, types, manufactures, so you tested with line you had on hand, and since none worked, you concluded a 100% knot must not exist. Beyond that, your reasoning for why they’re a myth was based on the same assumptions seen all over the web. You may have reached those assumptions through your own testing, or maybe justified your findings by following along with the logic other people had… because it made sense to you since you didn’t figure it out yourself.
Here’s some of what you wrote, and variations of these statements are seen in all explanations I’ve read as to why 100% knots don’t exist. All statements are simply “assumptions”…
“a knot will always create a weak point on the line”
“contorting line and creating hard turns” … “will
always create a weak point in the line”.
Here is a snipit from that forum capture I did…
“always break at the first sharp turn on the knot”
“to tie a knot you have to bend the line and the bend itself weakens the line”
These statements imply that pressure on the line “will always” enter a knot. The statements are only true for knots that are NOT +100%. In cases where people have seen knots break line (discounting bad line), they are certainly false assumptions. Keep in mind that in a +100% knot, pressure can’t even get inside the knot, as if it could, then the line in the knot would get damaged leading to knot failure. This is of utmost importance as to why +100% knots don’t break. So, no matter how many bends, turns or contortions there are in the knot, the knot won’t fail if pressure can never get into it. Basically, a +100% knot turns into a block of mono with line sticking out of it. In your quest for tying a +100% knot, you must find how to tie this block of mono… and hopefully, repeatedly.
Thanks for further describing your reasoning. It sounds as if the 100% knot type you’re referring to is a combination of multiple knots or a very long series of a long series of something basic.
Is it something like the Uni knot tied to the hook/lure with series of hitch knots sitting on top of it to further absorb energy before it enters the Uni?
Or is it something like a daisy chain that is long enough to spread and absorb the tension across its webbing?
The knots are common knots. Nothing added, no daisy chains, no series of knots, hitching or anything. It’s just the knots, and of course line with good characteristics.
I look forward to seeing which knots you find work best.
My guess now is that the knot type you’re using is something with a bunch of coil/wraps that like a Bimini or a PR knot.
Please let me know once you decide to reveal the specialized knot(s) and respective lines. I’ll be happy to help you build awareness for your venture.
And I’ll of course adjust the “100% fishing knot is a myth” claim in this post once I have a repeatable test run of a knot being able to continually outlast the line when it’s placed under more tension than the line can handle.
Lol, you’re close but way off! Does that even make sense? 😉
I sent an email to your site. Unfortunately not to disclose anything about the knot, but rather some info on line. I hope you find it helpful in some manner. One of these days I may have to finish that write-up I started. It’s been nice conversing with you, Luke. Keep that open mind! Tight lines!
Haha! I thought I’d at least try to rule some knots out or in:)
I hope you decide to take your findings public at some point soon. Be sure to let us know when you do because we’ll be happy to spread the word.
Yes, the best thing about fishing is that it’s impossible to knot it all, so it’s a continuous learning adventure. Fish On!
Bimini main line then GT knot to leader, IGFA claims 100% connection. The bimini to Fg comes second w 95%(?) but the line should be 50# and above leader 80#. ON the lower line class, PR bobbin knot, 80%. THese knots where submitted by FIShermen and the winner won a reel?
ANYway, I will try them next month offshore. tiGHt lines
A+++ GREAT article guys Now I know what knots to stick with.
Thanks so much for leaving the nice comment. Glad to see that you enjoyed this fishing knots guide. Fish On!
I’d love to see a comparison between the FG and the RP knot.
It appears as if the RP knot is essentially the exact same as a knot that is often referred to as the Crazy Alberto knot. I did a strength test between it and the FG and the FG surprisingly proved to be considerably stronger… here’s a link to see the test details along with a video showing the Crazy Alberto knot being tied to validate it is the same as the RP knot): https://www.saltstrong.com/articles/albright-vs-alberto-vs-fg-knot/
Hi Luke: Depending on which part of the country one lives in, a single knot can have many names. Re the “Alberto” knot you reference, other names include the Modified Albright/RP/John Collins/Improved Bristol. They’re identical knots with the only variance being number of wraps up/down (usually 5-7).
Yes, that is the tough part about doing knot comparisons. I’ll continually build this page out to account for the various name differences (some are exactly the same, while others are different just by a couple wraps/twists).
Great article, anyway to make this a quick reference guide so when I’m out on the water I know what’s knots to use in which situation?
Thanks Chris! I am glad to see that you are enjoying this fishing knots post. I’ll be continually adding to it as I test out more and more knots.
Chris…just hit share and send to your email, I then put the article in my “Fishing Folder”, just refer to it when needed.
line doubling knots : aussie plait or australian braid
Thanks for submitting the knot suggestions!
Hey, thought I would reach out and ask about what I’ve heard called the “Jimmy Houston Knot”, its on utube and I’ve watched Jimmy tie it several times. I have tried it and my line breaks before the knot does, Jimmy says it is a 100% knot and the only one he has ever seen. Good for any line type, can you check it out and get back to me?
I’ll be sure to give the Jimmy Houston knot a try next chance I get. Fish On!
Jimmy Houston Knot
I watched him tie it several times. It’s not terribly complicated. Tried it in 20# and 30#, then looked up every video and description I could find. I’m tying it right; it is not 100%.
Tested my best wrap of this knot in 30# copoly (10 tries) and 60# (5 tries) in fluorocarbon. Used steady increasing force to break it. Every time it broke where the main backbone went into the coils. Not somewhere in the backbone, but at the knot, where the backbone entered the coils. Yes, the knot was still on the eye, but sometimes the knot had a double wrap of line still around the eye and sometimes only one leg still holding the knot on.
In every case, the knot failed before the main line did. Too be fair, it is a solid knot, not hard to tie if you are not slowed by arthritis as I am, a kind of inverted improved clinch knot that performs way better than the improved clinch knot or even the Trilene knot, but not any better than a double double Palomar or a well tied multi coil uni knot. And it is cinch only, not a loop or anything I’d try using to tie line to line….
I’m thinking the people touting this knot are not examining the remains of the knots after breakage beyond noting the knot is still attached. The one leg gone on the doubled through the eye portion is a serious clue, but dissecting the knots that had both loops around the eye intact show the backbone broke at or just below the first coil at the top of the knot. It may be that stronger line caused recoil to push the broken end in to the eye and all the ones proponents examined had both loops intact around the eye. Used larger sizes so I could actually examine the insides of the knot with bright light and cut away parts during the necropsy to see the break.
It will keep a hook or plug on a line pretty good, but by definition is is not 100% of line strength.
My theory is increased constriction on the backbone (main or standing line) by the coils causes it to narrow the circumference and thus weaken it so it is what gives first.
I’ve never seen a 100% line strength knot in less than 400# test mono. (And almost no practical knot at or above that.) Not in half a century of looking. But I always stand ready to be amazed.
——Henry.
I’ve had great success tying mono to lures/hooks with a Jansik Special knot. Any thoughts?
Thanks for the great info.
Huge thanks for making it simple. I’ve cought a lot of 20 lb Redfish on the Clinch knot. A few times it has unraveled but overall a great easy knot. Re-rigged all of my lines with the FG knot for braid to flouro and very impressed with the difference in diameter. Now will work on breaking another old habit and go with the polymer for hook connection. Thanks for all you do the lifetime of information u provide. Thankful I chose to be Salt Strong!
So glad to see that you’re enjoying these fishing knot tutorials. Good job making time to learn the FG knot… you’ll be getting a huge increase in strength relative to the Clinch knot that you were using before. Fish On!
So I recently found a variation of the Orvis knot known as the Orvis Tippet knot. It’s used to join similar diameter mono lines together and I thought it might have a chance against the venerable Surgeon’s knot. I would love to see your results added here. https://news.orvis.com/fly-fishing/pro-tip-how-to-tie-the-orvis-tippet-knot
Thanks for submitting the knot request Joshua! I have used the Orvis knot for line to hook/swivel connections for years, but I never considered using it for line to leader too. I’ll make sure to add this to my list of knots to test out. Fish On!
Hi Luke,
My name is Earl. l live in San Diego.
A popular knot used out here on the west coast is the RP ( Royal Polaris) knot. It is a strong knot for braid to mono or fluorocarbon line.
I would like to see the results of this knot compared to the FG knot.
THank you.
I just found some videos showing the Royal Polaris knot and they all seem to be the same as what we can the Crazy Alberto knot over here. Here’s a post that shows how the FG knot compares to it in addition to how it is tied so you can make sure it’s the same knot: https://www.saltstrong.com/articles/albright-vs-alberto-vs-fg-knot/
Old arthritic hands. any tips on swivels or clips that make lure change easier without hindering action or deterring fish.
Have you tried the Surgeon’s knot yet (https://www.saltstrong.com/articles/surgeons-knot/)? It’s the knot that requires the least amount of tight motions and it’s surprisingly strong.
As for clips, they all pretty much are the same… if the surgeon knot isn’t comfortable, then I would recommend finding the smallest clip you can find that’s strong enough to handle your target species.
Arthritic fingers – what knots?
I started fighting Arthur (Ankylosing spondylitis in hands and spine) at age 13. Symptoms started 45 years ago while growing up a commercial fisherman, so I have long sought to avoid tying knots in the field whenever possible. Tying much of my terminal tackle in a warm dry living room with table space, tools and jigs is how I mostly do it these days. The trick was coming up with a quick change that did not require complicated hand motions, repetition or heavy stress on fingers out in the cold and wet, but avoided snap swivels though I used those for years before developing this system.
Braid and fluorocarbon have complicated the process by requiring multiple modifications and newly adopted knots followed by testing those knots at the bench and in the field and finding what works.
The last couple decades I have only recreationally fished with artificials, but my prior experience rigging commercial equipment provided some background in adaption and materials testing that was useful. [I built and designed nets, traps (lobster and fish), longline gear, harpoon rigs and more, then tested them against some of the toughest customers to be found it the water.]
For inshore light tackle ( 7 ft one piece Berkeley Lightning rods, 2500 series reels, 15-20 lb braid, 20-30 lb copolymer leader, flukes, paddletail jigs, bucktails, whopper ploppers, woodchoppers, spinner rigs, etc.) I use a system to avoid tying much of anything in the field. Start with extra matching rod reel combos so you first just change rods in and out of a rod holder rack.
Then tie leaders longer than you need to repair bite offs and breaks on structure without having to tie new leader to the braid. Use a good braid to leader knot you can successfully tie over and over. I’ve used double uni, slim beauty, multi wrapped Surgeon’s knots, but prefer by far the Chinese finger cuff knot or FG knot finished with a uni knot instead of half hitches. Break offs almost always happen at the leader, or a nick in the braid, but rarely at the FG knot when properly tied. I’ve snapped several earlier rods at the reel seat inside my hand before the braid or leader before using Lightning rods. ( I tried St. Croix rods but not any better IMHO.)
The key to the quick field changes of lures works this way. I tie a 3-4 inch loop in the end of the leader. Then I have a stub leader tied with a loop or modified Palomar to the jig or other lure terminating 5-6 inches out with a 2-4 inch loop. Loop to loop knot the leader to the stub leader. NOTE: Be sure NOT to make a GIRTH HITCH. Slide the stub loop over the leader loop, bring the jig up through the leader loop and pull the stub leader all the way out by the jig.
The Loop to loop forms a square knot between the two loops. The tag ends are secured by the loop knots so the knot cannot capsize. However if you push the two loops toward each other, one in each hand, the loop to loop can be untied. Even serious strain does not lock it. I’ve lifted a commercial crab trap with one and still untied the loop to loop. You can change lures in a few seconds. If the stub leaders tangle, they’re easily untangled or can be isolated by using sandwich sized zip locks to store them in the tackle box.
Depending on the eye of the lure, a stub leader is not always necessary, but to get the right action sometimes they are essential. Any well performing loop knot you can regularly tie should work if strong and stable. I use perfection knots with extra wraps all the way around with the tag end between the first two loops that form the perfection loop by tucking one through the other. This prevents the copolymer from slipping. Works for pure fluorocarbon too.
You tie the leaders and FG knots at home at your own pace, stopping whenever you need to stop.
In the wind and rain you only have to manage one or two loops. Beats tying on every lure you use. Tested it in the wild against straight leader same lure. Caught same on both rigs. I never saw a fish flare from the loops. Can’t say the same for swivels and clips.
——-Henry.
Thanks so much for providing the great tips. Sure sounds like that loop to loop system can be very helpful for quick changes. I’ve used that for fly fishing, but I did never considered it for traditional leaders… will have to give it a shot.
WOW Henry! Now I have arthritis of the brain. Gonna take me a while to digest and practice your advice. Appreciate the detail and rationale. More to your post than the loop knot, you are a rich source of experience and know how.
Thanks for the info.
Jim
Hope it helps and contact me if you run into any problems implementing it. I used it all day today casting everything in my box for this time of year here at points, rips, and marsh islands. Nasty low pressure rainstorm showed up toward evening so I would have had to go in or stop changing lures. Fish already being wet, rain only removes top water and much chance at snakeheads. So I pulled on the duck hunting parka and kept casting for 2 more hours before limping home and cranking up the electric throw on my recliner.
Only knot I tied all day, not to a dock cleat, was a perfection loop when I shortened a leader to avoid wind knots from the stiffening breeze. Hands throbbing like someone beat them with an axe handle but I fished all day. Beats desk duty or any chore I’ll be doing tomorrow.
——Henry.
Blood knot
For tying braid, mono or fluorocarbon directly to a hook, I use the traditional Snell knot. It’s never slipped on me, what a knot!! Give it a go
The Snell knot is one of the absolute strongest for tying to a hook because it enables so much evenly distributed friction along the line and the hook. I have not done a formal test on it yet because I rarely use live or cut bait so rarely tie directly to a hook… also, I use light mainline relative to the stronger leader for the business end of my line assembly so the maximizing the strength of that final knot doesn’t add any extra overall strength since the knot on my mainline is on a much weaker line.
That being said, it’s absolutely on my list of knots to test out.
The Snell knot also gives us Texas rigged bass guys the “kick” at hook set. Grab the weight, pull the line, and watch what happens. I land twice as many using the Snell on a Texas rig than say a Palomar that pulls out of their mouths but you have to feed the line from the front when tying.
Luke I recently respooled with 10# spider wire ultra cast braid and my fg knots don’t seem to hold…any thoughts?.. .I seem to get a little more distance with this braid but the coating may be a problem. Up north with nanofil I have to double the braid loop with my double uni knots but tying the fg with a doubled ultra cast does not seem to be the answer…thanks
The fg knot is a great knot. When im using a slippery style of braid (such as what you are using) i rub some sand paper or a sharpening stone on the area of your leader where the FG knot will clinch down onto. This will give the braid a textured surface to help stay in position. Also make sure you tighten the knot so that it clinches down / bites onto your leader martial. Good luck
I am not sure what the FG knot isn’t holding with your spider wire line. What size leader are you using?
Either 20 or 30 depending on the situation. I was using seguar blue, tried seguar premium and now a softer advance…same results
Interesting. I’ll pick up some spiderwire to see if I see those results too. If you haven’t already tried this yet, do another one with 14 to 16 coils because using less of them will make them more likely to dig the necessary groves into the outer layer of the leader. And be sure to put a lot of tension on it before cutting off the tag end of the leader… it needs to fully set in place before that is cut.
Will do. I did try up to 30 wraps without success. May just have to respool with power pro
Try tying the half hitches at the end of the fg knot good and tight before pulling to set the knot.
For joining braid to braid could two bimini doubles be used like a wind on leader. Would like to see it tested.
The bimini twist is essentially a just slip knot that has a lot of friction. But with the low-friction tendency of braid lines, the bimini loop can often slip once it gets close to its max tension load, so I do not recommend using a bimini loop connected to another bimini loop.
I think you will post some info in the future on fly lines but any thoughts on something easy for fly line to leader? Would you do two Surgeon’s loops for a loop to loop connection?
You provide great info on your site. Really appreciate it.
John
Yes, I will be sure to add in some tests for fly line knots. The knot that I was taught for fly line connections was the Perfection Loop knot to create the loops and then loop to loop connections. But I have not tested that against the other options so I can’t say for sure which is best… I’ll add it to my list of knots to test out.
for mono to hook, do you think palomar reigns supreme over snelling?
If going for pure strength, I believe that the snell knot is extremely tough to beat because it does the best at spreading the tension load while also getting friction assistance from a larger surface of the hook.
I am always using a lighter main line for increased casting/retrieving performance with a stronger leader to handle the business end of the line assembly, so I don’t worry about the final knot to the hook nearly as much as I do the line-to-line knot which is statistically going to be the weakest link.
Have you done a test between the snell knot and Palomar? Im concerned about knot strength more than anything. Thanks.
I have not tested those two out against one another yet, but my assumption is that the snell knot will be stronger because it does a better job at spreading the tension load across a wider range.
What about the Red Philips knot for braid to fluro?
I have not yet tested the Red Philips knot… it’s now added to the list. Thanks for the great suggestion Brent!
Is the San Diego jam knot strong to tie jigs using floro. I mainly fish walleye in Ontario.
Thanks.
It is a strong knot, but I recommend using Loop knots for jigs because it allows more action in the water. Here’s a post showing some top options for loop knots: https://www.saltstrong.com/articles/best-loop-knot-for-fluorocarbon-leader/
FG knot is a pain to tie in the boat, otherwise a great knot. I’ve been tying a Bristol for braid to fluoro, but I reverse it. I double over the leader and tie the Bristol around it. 11 turns for 20# fluoro, and maybe 10 for 30. Give it a try and see how it does. Makes a knot easily as small as a Crazy Alberto.
I’m curious to learn more about your reverse bristol knot… are you saying that you tie your leader into a loop and then wrap the leader around the braid? If so, what pound lines are you using when doing that?
No, I don’t TIE a loop in the fluoro leader, I simply double it over about 6 inches. I insert the braid in the loop at the end and pinch it there while I wrap the braid around the fluoro. Trim the braid tag and then the short end of the leader, not quite flush. The knot makes the tag end lay down next to the working side of the leader and it passes through 4.5mm guides with no problem. I use it for everything. I will send a couple of photos to the email I just received. But for example, I use it to tie 40 or 50# braid to a 60 or 80# mono shock leader for wreck fishing in the Gulf. I tie anywhere from 10# braid for Trout to 30# braid for Spinnerbaits on Redfish to up to 30# leaders. I double over a 3′ piece of fluoro with a 3/16’s jig on each end and tie either the braid directly to it with the Bristol, or first a 6′ piece of fluoro to the braid and then the 6′ piece to the double rig exactly the same way. Again, I’ll take a 3′ piece and tie a Sheepshead hook on one end and a perfection loop for sinker attachment on the other for a bottom rig. If I’m tying 40 – 80# braid for Gulf fishing, I might make 8 turns around the leader instead of the 11 I use for 10-30# braid.
Thanks for sharing your tips Milt!
I want to thank you guys for answering so many of my questions… after I have used your FG knot successfully on thin braid and leader to fly line I am never going back to anything ells. I mainly use the Palomar knot for terminal tackle connections. But recently my father in law showed me how to tie a knotless knot. I was very impressed by its strength as I could not break the knot. have you tested this knot against the orvis knot?
thanx again for the great work you guys are doing!!
Could you please send me a video or diagram of the knotless knot you described? I don’t believe I’ve ever seen that knot.
Not sure if you received the vid / diagram so here it is – better get it twice than not at all. Note, whilst it can be tied with a hair rig loop, you don’t have to include the loop.
https://www.netknots.com/fishing_knots/knotless-knot the link I omitted ;-(
Thank you! Although the kreh is already an easy knot I figured the canoe would be even quicker and uses less leader line (if retying often). I will try the test and may be switching knots. An added bonus is my son could easily tie his own loop knots then with confidence!
Hello Luke,
I appreciate your response to my prior question. Another question… What is the advantage of Snelling a hook? And a follow up question… There seems to be many different ways to snell a hook. Is one way better than another?
I appreciate your advice.
Ben
Hey Ben, the advantage of snelling a hook is that it typically results in a very strong connection given all of the surface area that toughs the hook shank.
That is more for natural bait fishing which I do not do much of (I use artificial 99% of the time), so I personally do not have much experience with using different variations of the snell knot.
Luke,
So I stumbled back across this article and a thought came to me (kinda scary lol). With the line testing you have been doing revealing nylon mono may be just as good, if not better, than flouro how does this impact the knot tests? The one that specifically got my attention was the loop knots. Do you recall the strength of the canoe loop with regular mono (it wasn’t posted but you said it was significantly better)? Would it be an equivalent or better option than the kreh with regular mono?
Thank you!
Charlie
Hey Charlie, I cannot remember how much better the Canoe Loop was over the others with the mono. I’m sure that it wasn’t a huge margin because that knot is so small which does not allow it do spread the tension load over much area. I recommend tying them onto a stand of whatever line you plan to use and pulling until the weaker one breaks (tie them to a swivel and secure the swivel to a strong object so that you’re protected from any recoil).
Hello Luke,
Great information as always and greatly appreciated. Is there an ” improved” FG knot for a double line, for example securing off a Bimini twist?
I did some testing of the FG knot on a doubled line, and the FG knot tied onto a doubled line from a bimini twist did prove to be stronger than the single line FG knot, but the bimini needs to have 50+ twists in it compared to the ~20 twists that seem to be the norm… when doing ~20 twists, the bimini twist (which is essentially a big slip knot) began to slip which put all of the force onto one of its legs which caused a weak point.
Given the added time it takes to tie the bimini with so many twists and the minor added strength that it provides, I recommend the normal single line FG knot.
The line that’s used makes a big difference. What line mfg. are you using and what pound test? In mono, fluoro and spectra.
I will buy some and see if what you are using is capable of producing a 100% knot.
There are many variables that affect knot strength.
The main ones are:
Material used in Line mfg. Some mfgs. use low grade materials resulting in an impossible 100% knot..
How the knot it tied. There are always several ways to tie the same knot some drastically affecting results.
How the knot is cinched down is critical.
Line diameter as per pound test on the lable. They vary all over the place for the same claimed breaking strength.
In reply to this comment from Salt Strong:
I’ll be quick to change the claim that there is no such thing as a “100% knot” as soon as I find a knot that consistently is not part of the failure point when putting more tension on the line than the line/knot can handle. If you know of any knots that can qualify as 100%, please do not hesitate to let me know. Note: To qualify as a 100% knot, the breaking point of the line must consistently be away from the knot when putting more tension on a line assembly than it can handle… I’ve had seen knots pull that feat off before, but I have yet to find one that can do it consistently.
Go to it or reply: https://www.saltstrong.com/articles/fishing-knots/#comment-22377
Hey Walt, I use a variety of lines in these experiments. But most often a 10 lb PowerPro braid for knots involving braided lines. And then 20 to 30 lb leader material from manufacturers like Seaguar and Ande for fluoro/mono tests.
Do you have a line and knot combo that truly gets a 100% knot strength? If so, please let me know and I’ll be happy to get that line and use the knots that are already proven to work.
The “100% fishing knot” is a myth. That statement is a myth. Keep experimenting and sooner or later you will be successful at tying a 100% knot.
I’ll be quick to change the claim that there is no such thing as a “100% knot” as soon as I find a knot that consistently is not part of the failure point when putting more tension on the line than the line/knot can handle.
If you know of any knots that can qualify as 100%, please do not hesitate to let me know.
Note: To qualify as a 100% knot, the breaking point of the line must consistently be away from the knot when putting more tension on a line assembly than it can handle… I’ve had seen knots pull that feat off before, but I have yet to find one that can do it consistently.
Has the FG knot been tied in reverse, instead of mono to braid, braid to mono, and if so is it just as strong? I understand the concept, the braid cutting into the top layer of the mono, so this still should happen in reverse.
I don’t believe that it’ll work that way because the braid is too nimble which would make it very tough to be the center point of the FG knot… Let me know if you somehow get it to work.
How about trying a Red Phillips knot ?
I have that next on my list of knots to test out… coming soon.
It is very bulky and a pain to cast with especially when using long leaders. It is the main reason it is not widely used I think. But it is super strong.
Using mono or fluoro leader, have you compared the palomar or orvis knots to the modified uni knot? I’ve been using the modified uni knot for a while now to attach braid and fluoro to swivels, hooks, and lures without problems. I believe the modified uni knot (aka fish n fool knot) did very well in a comprehensive knot wars competition in the past. The orvis knot does look easy to tie and having tag end face away from the rod is a plus.
Yes, the Modified Uni is equivalent if not stronger than the Palomar knot (very close). And the Orvis knot is not quite as strong as either of them. However, I use light braid with a stronger leader so the leader that’s typically 2 times stronger than the main line, so the lure to leader knot is never the weakest link… so I prefer to use the Orvis knot because it’s quicker to tie and leaves its tag end facing backwards while it is still much stronger than the weakest link (the braid to leader knot).
Hey luke not to get off the subject i was just trying to go on the site to ask you a question do you sell your hays anymore i looked on your site in the apparels link but all i saw is shirts and hoodies and in accessories no hats just headbands and gaters i know your t going to sell anymore clothing in fact i believe your deadline is tommorrow but i was at least interested in a hat if no thats alright?
Wow never really thought about it that much but with my experience and since i have used braid i still like the improved cinch knot for braid to florocarbon leader i use power pro 20 lb with a Berkley inviso-line also 20 lb leader and very seldom do i have breakoff or a knot slippage my knots usually are so strong that i have bent strong hooks pulling on them when. snagged but i guess its just a matter of preference what works for some doesnt necessarily work for others anyways though great tips you have certainly made your point and a good one at that thank you😀
Yes, different lines react to knots different ways in some cases, so there typically is not a one-size-fits-all answer to which knot is the absolute best. But I do recommend giving the 6 turn surgeon knot a try because you should get a 20%+ stronger connection for your braid to leader connection because it is more efficient at spreading the tension load more evenly than the cinch knot… and an added bonus is that it’s super quick and easy to tie.
Do it at home and test its breaking strength against the cinch. And I believe you’ll be as surprised as I was when I started running tests on the knots that I used for years before.
Fish On!
whats the best braid to braid knot?
Here’s the best braid to braid knot that I’ve tested so far: https://www.saltstrong.com/articles/strongest-braid-to-braid-fishing-knot/
On the West Coast, the knot usually recommended to connect a fluoro leader to mono is the “Seaguar knot”. Is the result the same as the 3-turn surgeon’s knot?
The Seaguar Knot is slightly different than the Surgeon’s Loop… the difference is that the loop gets twisted in the Seaguar knot where the lines get twisted around the Loop in the Surgeon. They are very similar, but a test I did on it a while back had the Surgeon being slightly stronger.
The Miller knot is a stronger knot than your Palomar knot, very small and takes seconds to tie. Instead of testing the Sandiego jam, try a double Sandiego jam. It takes a little longer to tie but much stronger than your Palomar knot.
What line(s) were used for the Miller vs. Palomar knot test(s)?
What lines work best for the double Sandiego jam knot?
You mean the Joe Miller knot that is a modification of the trilene knot, not the Miller knot that has existed for a couple centuries for tying a bag shut securely and being able to be reopen it that is a modification of the clove hitch, right? The twist the Joe Miller knot has does fix much of the problem caused by tying the trilene knot in slip prone fluorocarbon and hard to cinch 200+ # test mono, but that clearly introduces multiple areas for mistakes when tied quickly that do not exist in a Palomar even if you correctly improve it by adding a turn around the eye and extra turn of the loop before dropping the hook or lure through.
On the other hand, I used the old Miller knot to tie big hooks to 400# and 600# test for catching swords and tuna on longline snoods because it held in testing and let me hide the hook in a squid bettter than everything else…. not sure how that would translate to modern cordage in much smaller diameters.
Which Miller knot do you mean?
I was using the FG, then started with a GT. Now I use double braid 4 turn nail knot. Never had one fail yet. You must double the braid or it may slip.
Thanks for all the work you put in testing the knots. Just finished testing the FG knot with a very slick braid (Tuff-Line Plus, no coating or color whatsoever) and it hold like a leech. Clearly better than my previous favorite Alberto.
Question: Why not use a Uni to lock the FG instead of multiple overhand knots?
“The only thing worse than getting skunked is having the whole world learn about it”
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Glad to see that you’re enjoying the FG knot! I don’t use the Uni to lock it because I can tie the hitches much faster and they haven’t ever unwound on my yet.
Note: The full strength of the knot is held in the FG coils… the finishing knot is simply there to keep the coils in place.
I have to disagree with the blanket recommendation of the fg knot. The power pro and regular ande flouro you tested it with is almost ideal conditions for the knot. A rough braid and a soft flouro. My experience with the knot is that it will always eventually fail when using a slicker braid and harder leader flouro(15 lb diawa J to 35 lb seagar abrazx). The knot has great initial strength under ideal conditions but low security. Wheras the alberto or surgeons have lower initial strength but are much less likely to work their selves loose. Although my experiences might differ from yours, I do enjoy your writing and testing. Hey and my experience with the fg knot caused me to design my own knot. I consider it much more secure than the fg although it might not be any stronger then the alberto. Tight lines.
Thanks for sharing your feedback. Given that it’s impossible to test each knot with every line, I tried to structure this post to merely show my results for the lines I like to use so that others can see some data points for testing their connections on the lines they prefer to use.
I have used the FG knot with multiple braids (PowerPro, Finz, etc.) and leaders (Seaguar, Ande, Berkley, etc.). So far, it has worked great for them all. However, I have heard others having trouble with the coils slipping while they cast when using a heavy braid to a relatively light leader… my guess is that the top coil gets pulled from the friction of hitting the rod guides.
If you get a chance, please send in directions for your knot because it seems like it could help a lot of anglers increase their line strength.
Fish On!
have you try ag chain knot to tie off mono/flouro to swivel?
Yes, I have used it in the past but I still have not had a chance to test it out on the scale… it’ll be on my list for additional knots to test out once I can find some time for testing knot strengths. Fish On!
Hey Luke great information here – but why no mention of the pr knot ?
It is a very popular knot down here in Australasia for braid to leader but it does need a bobbin,
either a standard fly tying type or a special pr bobbin.
Keep up the good work.
Guy
Hello Saltstrong family. Luke once again I appreciate “The best fishing knots of all time” For myself it is refreshing to go over basic knots. To be proficient we need to practice so we can all can pass it on. Thanks for the post. Fish On? & Thigh Lines
Agreed ! Great stuff guys. Thanks for sharing.
My pleasure! Thanks so much for making time to leave the nice feedback.
What about the RedPhillips knot for braid to floro?
Thanks for adding the knot suggestion Jerry. I’ll add the Red Phillips knot to the list of knots to test out.
Love the red phillips
Can you test the John Collins, Royal Polaris knot?
Sure, I look forward to testing the John Collins and Royal Polaris knots against the others.
I’d like to see how an “Improved Davy” or “Double Davy” (essentially the Davy with 1 extra turn) would stack up against the Orvis. I’ve found that extra turn to add an exceptional amount of strength over the original Davy, and I suspect it would outperform the Orvis.
Thanks for leaving the recommendation. I’ll add the double davy to the list of knots to test out.
Line to lure MONO: Miller, Improved Clinch, Eye Crosser
Line to lure FLORO: Triple Loop, Berkly Braid
Line to lure BRAID: Improved Reverse Clinch, Burke
Thanks for the knot suggestions. I’ll add them to the list of knots to test and add to this post. Tight Lines!
what is the best way to tie two lures to the leader line and then the leader to the braid main line.
Great question on the multi-lure question… I need to eventually add a section for that after some more analysis is done. So far, the surgeon’s knot is the strongest way I’ve found to tie multiple lures to a leader. Here’s a link: https://www.saltstrong.com/kids-fishing/knots/dropper-loop-knot/
As for braid to the main line, I like the FG knot and the 6 turn surgeon’s knot best (linked above in this post).
Luke, I always enjoy the saltstrong Emails and all your research. I’ve learned much from you. When using the FG, you said only use a heavier leader than braid. Why is that?
I’ve been testing it with lighter leader than braid (example: 40# fluoro/80#braid) for off shore application with excellent results. Thanks again.
Greg
The FG knot relies on the braid digging groves into the outer layer of the leader in order to lock into place for good. And as the braid’s diameter gets closer to that of the mono, the braid has a tougher time digging in the needed groves so it can be at risk of sliding off during casts.
Also, the core purpose of it is to protect the braid from breaking by spreading the tension load across the many coils, so using a heavier braid on a lighter leader will only compromise the leader’s strength which will be a weak point in the line assembly… I’d recommend going to a 6 turn surgeon’s knot instead of the FG knot when using those two lines because it’ll do a better job at protecting the leader.
so I shouldn’t use an FG to tie 200# braid to 150# mono?
I have never tried the FG knot with braid over 50 lbs so unfortunately can’t say for sure if it would be good or not so good with such heavy line.
My hunch is that the braid may be too thick relative to the mono which could put it at risk of not forming the necessary groves into the outer layer of the mono for it to never slip or come undone.
Joe and Luke, this info on the various knots is really helpful. Thank you.
Thanks for making time to leave the nice comment Mel. Glad to see that you enjoyed this best fishing knots post. Tight Lines!
Thanks for all the info!!! Loving the insider life!!!! Keep it coming!!! Learn something new with every read on here and every outing in the boat!!!
#saltstrong
#thislifeaintforeveryone
Thanks for making time to leave the nice comment Stephen!
Have you tried the Joe Miller knot ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaNx56sYEDY
I have not yet tried the Joe Miller knot, so I’ll add it to my list of knots to analyze. At first glance, it appears to be a good “snug” knot for tying directly to a hook.
For line to line connections, the “slim beauty” should be considered. Small enough to pass through guides, etc.
I tested the Slim Beauty in my very first test (https://www.saltstrong.com/articles/best-fishing-knot-for-braided-line/) and had a tough time with it.
I’ll give it another shot and will record the tying steps and results.
In the Best Braid-to-Swivel/Lure/Hook Knots, did you ever test the double double Palomar (twice through the eye and 2 times through for the overhand)? I’ve had great success with that for braid.
I tested the double double Palomar in a different test when I was analyzing different versions of the Palomar knot (here’s a link if interested: https://www.saltstrong.com/articles/strongest-palomar-knot), and it tested to be the best Palomar option for braid.
However, the double double Palomar was beaten by the Improved Uni knot linked above 5 out of 5 times when put head to head.
Thanks Luke. I appreciate all the knowledge and experience both you, Joe, and the rest of the tribe pass along. Great community you guys have fostered.
Luke thanx so much for all your instructive videos. Here’s a tip to share re: tying Bimini Twist learned from guide out of Marathon area—he liked much longer Bimini’s and did not use leaders—boy could he catch fish! He used same knot but MUCH longer which made it harder to tie without utilizing his technique. He simply put the loop around both knees (separated but not fully spread) after the 20 twists were introduced. Then it’s a simple matter to spread your knees to compact the twists and finish as in your video. A longer Bimini Twist will pass easily through the guides and distributes the tension across 2 lines. I have landed fish w only one leg of the line remaining following abrasion. Disclaimer: I have not used this technique with braid but will do so soon. I love it w mono.
Thanks for making time to leave the nice comment and the tip about the longer bimini twist. Please keep us posted about your results when testing it out with braid. Fish On!
I try clicking on the + sign to see what knots they are but nothing happens.
Which is stronger- the FG knot or double double uni-knot ?
The strength results will surely fluctuate depending on line brands, but the FG knot proved to be ~30% stronger than the double double uni knot in my test of it with braid to fluorocarbon (10 lb PowerPro braid to 30 lb Ande fluorocarbon). I’ll be doing another contest with different lines soon, but I feel confident saying that the FG is the way to go given the results of the first test and my usage of it since then.
For your next knot contest, be sure to add the 5 turn surgeon to the braid to leader category… it is quick to tie and has been working great for me for years.
Will do… we meant to include the surgeon in this original post. Thanks so much for making time to leave a comment.
I do a lot of knot testing. A knot you should test for a join to a swivel/hook/ring etc. with spectra. Take the spectra and tie a standard Trilene knot but use 18 wraps up with a small space between wraps and 18 wraps back down. Going down eliminate the spaces between wraps so the spectra is right next to the wrap next to it. You will get 20-30 wraps going back down. Now just put the tag end through the space at the bottom of the wraps next to the hook. The tag end does not need to be threaded under the double loops going through the hook eye. Wet it and cinch down. You will need a cinching tool to do this. I use a piece of 1″OD PVC wrapped with black electrical tape. Wraps about 8 turns of the spectra around the tool and hook the hook to something solid. You cannot cinch this knot by hand you must use the tool . It will take a lot of force to cinch up Pull slowly in several efforts do not try to cinch it down all at one time. This will eliminate any possible heat build up.
Hey Walter, thanks so much for leaving your great tip to this fishing knots post. I’ll give this modified Trilene knot a try. Fish On!
Hey guys,
I also research and test knots myself. The best knots are no knots, using wind on leaders with loop to loop connections. Also vs tying a bimini twist, you can stitch a loop in braid which is easy and and acts as a Chinese finger trap. Tests better than bimini.
There is a lot of scientific research that has been done by ‘paulusjustfishing’ website and great forums on the 360tuna website on rigging.
YouTube the TN knot for terminal connections. You can pull a truck with it. Ha
Keep up the great work and info guys! I’ve learned a lot
Sorry, it’s the NT knot. Finish with a risutto knot over the half hitches.